Removing Spray-on Dye?

[Sunflower49]

This is my last-gasp attempt to find a way to un-do what a poor craftsman did to my chair.  I have one of those Danish Modern chairs that once was my dad's, who gave it to my brother, who finally gave it to me. The leather was in poor shape and I decided this sentimental piece deserved a professional cleaning, re-conditioning and possibly boosting the colors. This piece has multiple light tan colors, some with a bit more rust-orange and some nearly light tan, others golden. The proclaimed 35-year veteran of leather work said he could only restore the color to one color, so I said forget it, just clean and re-condition. (I didn't mind the faded color, it reminded me of all the use it had endured by people I love)  I went inside as he began working. After 15 minutes, I thought I would check to see how things were going - I was pretty excited.  What I encountered was this man using a device that looked like a spray paint gun, spraying a medium brown all over the upper cushions!  He announced that he had told me he couldn't do the separate colors, and so was just doing the same color as the back of the chair, a med-brown.

Long, horrible story short -- my beautiful, unique chair is now a dull, ugly med-brown. Plus, there a places he missed entirely, like the inside of the arms. And other places where the darker dye dripped down the front of the seat and the foot stool.  I did try to stop him, but while he defended his actions, he continued to spray brown stuff that looked just like paint on my chair.  In the end, I have a chair that won't take a conditioner (I've spent a lot buying different ones in hopes something would work.) and the leather feels exactly like it has paint on it. Where 75% of the chair was still soft and supple, now 100% of the chair is rough and feels weird.

I won't bore anyone with the bull-headed garbage I put up with from this guy, who repeated proclaimed he did the best he could and that was great, after his 35 years of experience!  

So, he didn't clean or re-condition. The chair won't take any conditioner, as it's like the dye/paint he used simply clogged the leather.

I am trying (and have been for months) to find a way to remove some of this 'paint' or to at least find a way to help the leather absorb a conditioner.

Can anyone help me?  Or...am I just [picture of screw]ed?   Many many thanks to anyone who replies... 

[fredk]

The only thing I can say is try lacquer thinners, and lots of clean rags. Try removing some of this new finish in an area where it won't show too much. I use lacquer thinners [aka cellulose thinners] to remove the the glaze and dye on upholstery leather. Using the lacquer thinner will possibly remove some of the original finish, and you'll need to use plenty of leather feed/conditioner after as it also removes the oils from the leather.

[fredk]

another thot; have you tried removing it with alcohol? Methylated spirits, IPA, or even vodka?

[koreric75]

Do you have a before and after pic, sounds to me if this was indeed paint and not dye the leather may be very hard to get back...he sprayed with a spray gun, like an autobody spray gun or an air brush?  You need to know what he was spraying, before trying to remove/recondition, once you have that then you may be able to use the proper solvent. 

[BDAZ]

See if he will let you know what dye he used, whether acrylic or alcohol. Don't go slopping solvents on the chair till you have that information. If acrylic, acetone will soften it but it's a real mess to remove. If it's alcohol (or oil dye) then use denatured alcohol, and again, have a ton of paper towels and rubber gloves.

BTW, methylated spirits is the same term as denatured alcohol, used in the former colonies.

Bob

[Sunflower49]

Thanks to everyone!!  I will try to reach this person to find out what kind of dye he used.  The chair literally feels like it has paint on it -- rough, stiff surface -- and if you put leather conditioner on it, it just lays there-won't absorb.

I'm willing to do the work to get at least some of the 'paint' off...    I really appreciate all the tips and information.  You all have given me a little hope.

[Stosh]

I feel for you. I don't think you will be able to remove the new finish without also removing the old finish under it. I should probably stop typing here...

The upholstery industry finishes/refinishes leather very differently than we do. I did a good bit of research a while back into refinishing a beloved (though not irreplaceable) recliner I have. Here is link to a company on Youtube that does what your "craftsman" did, if you want to see the steps a professional goes through in restoring leather upholstery: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjZoytEDMZCDZfNfyz1WfTg

Doing it right is a lot of work. It does involve a spray gun, but you don't give that gun to a monkey...

I have not done anything with my chair...however, I did refinish a pair of shoes using traditional leathercrafting products.

If you want to remove the finish entirely and start over, I would not use lacquer thinner, acetone, alcohol, or any other hardware-store product. Instead, I would use Fiebing's deglazer. Angelus makes a similar product, and both are made to strip finishes from leather shoes so they can be refinished. I used the Fiebing's on a pair of old shoes that I wanted to try a "patina" finish on. The deglazer worked well for the task, completely removing the old finish and even lightening the chocolate brown dye a bit (a plus for me, probably not for you). 

 

 

[Sunflower49]

Stosh -- thanks for not stopping typing...and for the Fiebing's deglazer tip.  I wouldn't mind if that process lightened the color.  In my case, the color is part of the issue. And the idea that this spray paint wizard missed areas and left drips.  And the idea that he did exactly the opposite of what I requested. And that I didn't stand guard over him while he worked...

Appreciate your response - thanks again

[BDAZ]

Feibings Deglaze is another Leather Company rip off. It is mostly ethyl alcohol (like you find in all alcoholic beverages) and ethyl acetate, ethenol reacted with acetic acid to produce enhanced effects. It is also contained in Kleen Strip Denatured Alcohol, at $7 a quart, or you can buy Feibings Deglaze, for $41.60 a quart (in 4oz bottles).

What a country!

Bob

[koreric75]

7 hours ago, BDAZ said:

Feibings Deglaze is another Leather Company rip off. It is mostly ethyl alcohol (like you find in all alcoholic beverages) and ethyl acetate, ethenol reacted with acetic acid to produce enhanced effects. It is also contained in Kleen Strip Denatured Alcohol, at $7 a quart, or you can buy Feibings Deglaze, for $41.60 a quart (in 4oz bottles).

What a country!

Bob

Yep, figured that one out after one tiny bottle of deglazer, now I use the denatured alcohol, kleen strip as well, it also works for solution of dyes, no longer buy med and light brown, just dark brown and reduce it... No sense paying for a bottle with some dye and allot of reducer...

[Sunflower49]

BDAZ-- zowie!  :O)    thanks for the alert on Feibings Deglaze, especially considering I have a large area to try to affect change on!  I'm anxious to get started on the worst parts where the drips are and on the arms, where the leather was damaged, not reconditioned, and now won't take conditioners.  

Again, thanks -- and thanks to everyone who has contributed -- I can now think of this as an adventure instead of a doomed quest.    

[BDAZ]

Not knowing what they used once cant be 100% sure the Alcohol will work but start in an inconspicuous area with a small amount and let it dwell for a bit then see what happens with a paper towel. You will need a lot of paper towels, patience and elbow grease if denatured is the right solvent.

Keep us posted!

Bob

 

[Stosh]

BDAS - Fiebing's deglazer is certainly not "mostly ethyl alcohol" as it makes up less than 9%. Ethyl Acetate, which makes up more than 50% of deglazer,  is a much different solvent regardless of how it is made. You must be thinking of Fiebing's dye reducer, which is ethyl alcohol plus a small percentage of  isopropanol. Deglazer costs $20 in quarts. You wouldn't buy 4 oz. bottles to do a chair. While it is true that denatured alcohol is cheaper, it won't effectively strip a finish, even after hours of scrubbing. (It didn't touch the finish on my shoes.) Sunflower49 might want to try a 4 oz. bottle of deglazer and compare it to denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol is always handy around the house (reducing dye, and all kinds of cleaning chores), so even if it doesn't work on the chair, it won't go to waste.

[BDAZ]

22 minutes ago, Stosh said:

BDAS - Fiebing's deglazer is certainly not "mostly ethyl alcohol" as it makes up less than 9%. Ethyl Acetate, which makes up more than 50% of deglazer,  is a much different solvent regardless of how it is made. You must be thinking of Fiebing's dye reducer, which is ethyl alcohol plus a small percentage of  isopropanol. Deglazer costs $20 in quarts. You wouldn't buy 4 oz. bottles to do a chair. While it is true that denatured alcohol is cheaper, it won't effectively strip a finish, even after hours of scrubbing. (It didn't touch the finish on my shoes.) Sunflower49 might want to try a 4 oz. bottle of deglazer and compare it to denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol is always handy around the house (reducing dye, and all kinds of cleaning chores), so even if it doesn't work on the chair, it won't go to waste.

I was using an older MSDS. A more modern one is Ethyl Acetate 70 - 90%  Ethyl Alcohol 10 - 30% My guess is it's the 70/30 ratio since ethyl is cheaper. However Methyl Alcohol in Kleen Strip is a more active solvent than Ethyl and also contains Ethyl Acetate.

In the solvent industry (I hold patents in biodegradable solvents) we say, like dissolves like, so a lot of the efficacy of either solvent is going to be based on the formula of the offending paint.  In addition, Tandy doesn't sell deglazer in quarts so not sure where you buy yours? I don't use it so I don't source it in production quantities.

There are also a number of less expensive solvents available at the local hardware store including xylene, tuelene and MEK, all nasty stuff to be handled with care, but may prevail when the alcohols dont. 

One problem is that we don't know if this is a paint, pigment or dye that needs to be removed. Your suggestion of trying the deglazer if the denatured alcohol fails is a good one as would be to purchase small quantities of the other solvents mentioned for testing.

 

Bob

 

 

[Stosh]

Quote

However Methyl Alcohol in Kleen Strip is a more active solvent than Ethyl and also contains Ethyl Acetate.

I know I am being pedantic, but there is no ethyl acetate in Klean Strip Denatured Alcohol. A 2014 SDS showed that there was <2% ethyl acetate, but as of 2015, there is none. It is now approx. 50/50 ethanol and methanol. 

[BDAZ]

The actual percentages are a "trade secret" in all MSDS and SDS documents. I believe that the reporting requirements may have changed in the past few years. and that could be the reason it seems to have disappeared. I'd check but it's probably not worth it. I discovered the Ethyl Acetate component on a RECENT document listing products containing EA, but with no percentages given. I formulated a biobased solvent which had just 3% of a specific chemical which made a dramatic difference to the performance of the solvent in removing layers of lead paint. So it's hard to tell the impact of adding a small amount of a chemical on the final efficacy without being familiar with the chemistry, which I am not.

I think at this point, let's see what develops or dissolves..

Bob

 

[chrisash]

A totally different outlook but why not take the person to court and get them to pay for a new covering, or you may well be able to get the original maker to fit a new covering and make the so called restorer pay the cost

No one has queried if its Veg Tan or Chrome leather, and removal be require different methods of removal depending on the leather

[BDAZ]

Unfortunately this is the US legal system and just wouldn't be practical. I used to live in the UK and it's a completely different kettle of fish here. Even if you win, it's unlikely you will collect unless you have a lawyer and that costs more than the jobs worth. Been watching "Can't pay, we'll take it away" and it would never work like that here.

BTW I was an avid Sporting Clay shooter and occasionally won the club trophy at the Christmas Common club near Oxford. I was out every Saturday and Sunday and have a custom Winchester of which only 500 were made for the UK market. I took lessons at H&H. 

Cheers!

Bob

[chrisash]

I only started Clays when 60 so never any high expectations and mainly just shoot at local straw bale shoots, with occasional visits to Highlodge in Suffolk as championship sporting ground

[BDAZ]

I dropped it when I moved back to the States. Something just wrong about shooting under a clear blue sky in California is shorts, and a t-shirt. I missed the Hunters, Barbours, bacon butty made by the farmers the frost and the drizzle. It was out corporate sport, instead of golf, and my boss had a pair of matched Purdys which cost more than my house in Berkshire.

Bob

 

[chrisash]

Powder one and you are alive, Powder two and all last weeks worries are forgotten. A Purdy  or Boss is ok as long as you are a crack shot , otherwise you draw attention to your failings

[BDAZ]

4 hours ago, chrisash said:

Powder one and you are alive, Powder two and all last weeks worries are forgotten. A Purdy  or Boss is ok as long as you are a crack shot , otherwise you draw attention to your failings

A bit like leather carving?

Bob

[Melia]

This exact thing just happened to me. Did the original poster ever find a solution?

[fredk]

The OP hasn't  been back in 7 years to enlighten us on that