antique finish HELP I can't get a smooth result with Fiebings Antique Finish (Medium brown)

[IrisLH]

Dear leatherworkers,

I'm fairly new to leatherworking and it's a hobby to me. I love the effect of Fiebings Antique Finish and I have two small pots of it: The "tan" and "medium brown" colours. I've already learned through some trial and error and browsing online that you're supposed to put a lot of the stuff on and then wipe it off. I noticed it kind of 'seals' the leather. Once the first amount is on, you can put on as much as you want after and it doesn't make a difference. The leather won't take more of it. And so I've learned to use a dauber to put plenty on in a circular motion and then wipe it off. When I do this with the 'tan' colour, it works fine. I get a really smooth one-colour result. Some small imperfections of course, but I'm satisfied. Now with the "medium brown" I just don't seem to be able to get this result and it is driving me crazy. Every motion I made with the dauber is visible. I kind of looks like clouds, which is not what I intend. What am I doing wrong?? Please help . I've added a picture to shown the effect I'm talking about. Don't mind the dyed part around the cut-out in the piece, that's from another project ;).

Kind regards,

Iris

[Rockoboy]

Following this post because for any thing I do know about dyes and finishing, I realise there is so much I don't know.

I usually find that I have to remove (and or even out) the excess very quickly. If I am doing a larger piece, like a belt, I work in shorter areas about 8 - 10 inches long and double up over the joins to even out the coverage.

[garypl]

I would dampen the leather first then apply the dye.

Gary

[Rockoboy]

41 minutes ago, garypl said:

I would dampen the leather first then apply the dye.

When you say dye, in this case do you mean antique? I think there is there a difference between dye and antique, right?

[Bonecross]

There are different ways to use antiques, but usually they are useful to get into crevices. (you wipe off the raised areas so it stays in the tooling). I do however love doing a base of light brown dye then once dry I'll pass over the entire surface with mahogany antiquing paste.

The application method is important, and so is removing the surplus almost immediately. So you can highlight tooling and natural flaws in the leather with it, or sort of "tint" the leather.

If you are expecting it to act like a penetrating dye, you might be better off with liquid dye. I also want to note that each time I use a black antiquing paste, it streaks like you show.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Bonecross

[garypl]

35 minutes ago, Rockoboy said:

When you say dye, in this case do you mean antique? I think there is there a difference between dye and antique, right?

Brian, I meant antique.  Regardless of whether I am using ware based dye or antique, unless I am spraying dye, which is how I usually do it, I wet the leather first.  Seems to be less streaky.  Spraying pretty much eliminates the problem.

Gary

[Rockoboy]

I am guessing it depends on which dye or antique is used, oil or alcohol or water based, but I have seen some recommendations on leatherworker.net for using NFO before dye is applied. Is this supposed to assist with penetration and/or even coverage, or have I entirely missed the point of the exercise?

*The reason I ask is because I have a project on my bench right now, that I especially want, a good finish on and I am flying blind at the moment. There is a definite possibility of more work and/or a good recommendation from the same customer.

[garypl]

8 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

I am guessing it depends on which dye or antique is used, oil or alcohol or water based, but I have seen some recommendations on leatherworker.net for using NFO before dye is applied. Is this supposed to assist with penetration and/or even coverage, or have I entirely missed the point of the exercise?

*The reason I ask is because I have a project on my bench right now, that I especially want, a good finish on and I am flying blind at the moment. There is a definite possibility of more work and/or a good recommendation from the same customer.

Brian, I normally dye first and then use NFO because dyeing seems to stiffen the leather.  Never tried using NFO before dyeing, but I have read posts here that say others do use NFO first and even mix dyes with the NFO.  Guess trying on some scrap leather would be a good exercise!

Gary

[Mark842]

I do a bunch of antique using Fiebings. What I have learned along the way..

Throw out the dauber. Put on a cheap set of surgical rubber gloves and finger paint.

You have to be fast. The larger the area your trying to antique at once the faster you need to be for the initial cover.

I keep me a pile of t-shirt material rags in 6" squares on my dying table. Going against product instructions, I don my gloves and pour a healthy amount of antique right on the leather. This is where you have to be fast! If you letter it sit for even a few seconds you will see a stain ring outlining where you poured it on. Spread the antique out completely covering the leather as quick as possible. After you have the surface covered you can massage it in by hand making sure you have even coverage and getting the amount you desire into whatever design you have tooled or stamped. Then I use the T-shirt rag. I wrap it once around my index finger. I've found if I just ball up the rag it allows it to go down into the tooling and takes the antique out, so single layer rag over one finger and I wipe the same direction across the design side to side. After most of the extra antique has been wiped off I work in circular motions on the non tooled areas to get a nice smooth mellow finish. For the your mileage may vary thoughts...some people like to antique with the leather damp. i feel my method gets far better color and results when the leather is dry. After a few hours and hand buff the product to a mellow shine and seal it.

[fredk]

When I use 'antique' I

a/ use a sponge, a damp sponge is best, to apply

b/ I wet the leather; more than damp, but not as much as needed for carving/stamping

c/ work fast, really fast

d/ have a pad of clean kitchen paper ready for wiping off the excess

[IrisLH]

On 6/8/2018 at 2:28 AM, garypl said:

I would dampen the leather first then apply the dye.

Gary

Thanks for your replies. I will try this

On 6/8/2018 at 3:37 AM, Bonecross said:

There are different ways to use antiques, but usually they are useful to get into crevices. (you wipe off the raised areas so it stays in the tooling). I do however love doing a base of light brown dye then once dry I'll pass over the entire surface with mahogany antiquing paste.

The application method is important, and so is removing the surplus almost immediately. So you can highlight tooling and natural flaws in the leather with it, or sort of "tint" the leather.

If you are expecting it to act like a penetrating dye, you might be better off with liquid dye. I also want to note that each time I use a black antiquing paste, it streaks like you show.

I did try to be really fast. I've shown an example on plain leather with no tooling, but I get the same result on a tooled part. I know it is not a penetrating dye, which I also use, but I do sometimes prefer the look of this antique paste over a dye. I must say, I also find it really hard to get a smooth result with Leather dye.. 

On 6/8/2018 at 2:46 PM, Mark842 said:

I do a bunch of antique using Fiebings. What I have learned along the way..

Throw out the dauber. Put on a cheap set of surgical rubber gloves and finger paint.

You have to be fast. The larger the area your trying to antique at once the faster you need to be for the initial cover.

I keep me a pile of t-shirt material rags in 6" squares on my dying table. Going against product instructions, I don my gloves and pour a healthy amount of antique right on the leather. This is where you have to be fast! If you letter it sit for even a few seconds you will see a stain ring outlining where you poured it on. Spread the antique out completely covering the leather as quick as possible. After you have the surface covered you can massage it in by hand making sure you have even coverage and getting the amount you desire into whatever design you have tooled or stamped. Then I use the T-shirt rag. I wrap it once around my index finger. I've found if I just ball up the rag it allows it to go down into the tooling and takes the antique out, so single layer rag over one finger and I wipe the same direction across the design side to side. After most of the extra antique has been wiped off I work in circular motions on the non tooled areas to get a nice smooth mellow finish. For the your mileage may vary thoughts...some people like to antique with the leather damp. i feel my method gets far better color and results when the leather is dry. After a few hours and hand buff the product to a mellow shine and seal it.

I've actually tried this once, to use my fingers when wearing gloves. It didn't make a difference for me. I have tried to be quick as you explained, but still I got this result. What is weird to me is that it worked perfectly with the tan colour but I just can't get it done with this medium brown. I will try once more to be even quicker. What I find difficult there is to not cover my whole tabletop in the paste. For example, if I don't want the back side of the leather to get any of the antique on, how do you do that? If I put a lot of stuff on really quick, then I also need to get close to the sides and then especially when wiping off such amounts, some of the paste will go onto my tabletop (or what is covering it I mean of course) and then the leather moves a bit because I'm working quick wiping stuff of and then the stuff is on the back too.. Any tips here?

On 6/8/2018 at 3:27 PM, fredk said:

When I use 'antique' I

a/ use a sponge, a damp sponge is best, to apply

b/ I wet the leather; more than damp, but not as much as needed for carving/stamping

c/ work fast, really fast

d/ have a pad of clean kitchen paper ready for wiping off the excess

I will also try the sponge, as well as working with damp leather, thank you.

 

---------------------------------------

Everyone thank you for your replies. I will try your suggestions later today and will post an update!

[fredk]

18 minutes ago, IrisLH said:

... What I find difficult there is to not cover my whole tabletop in the paste. For example, if I don't want the back side of the leather to get any of the antique on, how do you do that? If I put a lot of stuff on really quick, then I also need to get close to the sides and then especially when wiping off such amounts, some of the paste will go onto my tabletop (or what is covering it I mean of course) and then the leather moves a bit because I'm working quick wiping stuff of and then the stuff is on the back too.. Any tips here?

Try putting Duck/Duct/Carpet/Fabric/Gaffer **  tape on the back. Don't use plastic parcel tape

** it has so many names I'm not sure which one you would know it by

[IrisLH]

8 hours ago, fredk said:

Try putting Duck/Duct/Carpet/Fabric/Gaffer **  tape on the back. Don't use plastic parcel tape

** it has so many names I'm not sure which one you would know it by

That actually sounds like a good idea... why did I not think of that!

Also, I've tried applying to damp leather. This strap down below is in my brand new Light Brown antique paste that I just received in my mail today. Except from some black stripes, it does not look like clouds so I'm quite happy with that

Then, the other piece (next post, can't get it in here due to max total file size) is in my medium brown, the one that gave me problems. I also applied this to damp leather. The result isn't flawless but much better than before! So thank you for your replies! Also, this is just flat leather of course, I think on tooled leather it will look better already. Also today I received larger daubers (I only had small ones) so that might help too

 

[IrisLH]

Picture of medium brown coated piece to go with previous post

[fredk]

Those look grand.

Remember; antique is supposed to make the leather look used, its not really meant to give a perfectly even coloured finish as dye does

 

[LatigoAmigo]

I have never used Fiebing's Antique Finish on any veg-tan leather, but I've used it plenty on latigo in years past. I took a very different approach, and applied very light layers, swirling in just a small amount at a time. This allowed me to feather the layers and work out any uneven color. 

[IrisLH]

7 hours ago, fredk said:

Those look grand.

Remember; antique is supposed to make the leather look used, its not really meant to give a perfectly even coloured finish as dye does

 

Thanks :D

Yeah I know it's not supposed to look like dye so with that last result I'm happy but with the clouds I wasn't ;),

On another note.. my dyeing results aren't smooth as they should be either but that's for another topic sometime

[fredk]

5 minutes ago, IrisLH said:

On another note.. my dyeing results aren't smooth as they should be either but that's for another topic sometime

Same treatment basically; dampen leather. This time dilute the dye. 1 dye to 1 thinners at least. Apply with a damp sponge or dip-dye. Some on here prefer to use a spray brush to apply the dye - thats ok if you have a spray brush and somewhere to use it. I prefer to dip-dye when I can as it gets both sides of the leather in one go

[IrisLH]

8 minutes ago, fredk said:

Same treatment basically; dampen leather. This time dilute the dye. 1 dye to 1 thinners at least. Apply with a damp sponge or dip-dye. Some on here prefer to use a spray brush to apply the dye - thats ok if you have a spray brush and somewhere to use it. I prefer to dip-dye when I can as it gets both sides of the leather in one go

Yeah I've done some dip-dyeing, that works quite well. Does dampening the leather really work? Since the dye is alcohol-based.. Also I'm looking into diluting the dye, thought not sure how to go about it yet. I don't have a thinner though I read somewhere that you can just use spirit or something like that..? For now I find the colours really dark as well.. Like my light-brown is really dark brown if you ask me xD

[fredk]

Dampening the leather sure does work; it helps the dye flow through and penetrate the leather. I use Fieblings dye, its an acylic dye, I dilute it with methylated spirits - an alcohol

Dilute the dye more that 1[dye] to 3 [thinners] and you can build up the density of the colour by the number of times you dip

[IrisLH]

3 minutes ago, fredk said:

Dampening the leather sure does work; it helps the dye flow through and penetrate the leather. I use Fieblings dye, its an acylic dye, I dilute it with methylated spirits - an alcohol

Dilute the dye more that 1[dye] to 3 [thinners] and you can build up the density of the colour by the number of times you dip

I use Fiebings dye too.. I'm pretty sure it's not acrylic? But doesn't matter :). How do you go about the diluting and dipping? I imagine you need quite a lot for dipping (so far I've only dipped some straps, I would just pour the dye back into the container afterwards), so where do you leave the leftover after dipping?

Also, what kind of product specifically do you use for diluting? Fiebings has a reducer but I imagine that is unnecessary. In the Netherlands you can buy 'spiritus' in supermarkets, it's really cheap. Mostly ethanol and methanol, but unfortunately it has a blue colour in it.. So what do I buy?

[IrisLH]

Oh I just realized.. we have things like 'terpentine' which is white spirit and is also used as a thinner for paint, and 'wasbenzine'. They seem to translate to the following things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas

You think that works? I don't want to ruin my dye  

[fredk]

13 minutes ago, IrisLH said:

I use Fiebings dye too.. I'm pretty sure it's not acrylic? But doesn't matter :). How do you go about the diluting and dipping? I imagine you need quite a lot for dipping (so far I've only dipped some straps, I would just pour the dye back into the container afterwards), so where do you leave the leftover after dipping?

Also, what kind of product specifically do you use for diluting? Fiebings has a reducer but I imagine that is unnecessary. In the Netherlands you can buy 'spiritus' in supermarkets, it's really cheap. Mostly ethanol and methanol, but unfortunately it has a blue colour in it.. So what do I buy?

Last first; do NOT use anything like white spirit or turpentine - it will not mix with the dye and may actually make the dye colour separate out

I use Methylated Spirits; it sounds like you 'spiritus'. Meths has a purple colourant in it - this has never tinted any dye or even acrylic paint I have used it in. If in doubt just dilute an egg cup full to see. I believe someone on here has pointed out that Fiebings Reducer is just a mix of alcohol and it is over priced for what it is.

I take a bottle of dye and pour it into a new HDPE bottle. HDPE = High Density PolyEthylene. You can buy them cheap off ebay. I get them at £6.60 for 6

Fiebings comes in small 120ml bottles. The new bottles are 500ml. I add about the same amount of meths, ie about 120- 130 ml

To dip dye I have stainless steel oven trays, they are about 35cm x 25 cm x 5cm deep. I pour the diluted dye in, dip the leather, hang the leather to dry, pour the dye back into the big bottle - easy-peasy

For long items I just pull them through the dye in the tray; pulling to and fro a couple of times.

I hold the the dipped leather over the tray for half a minute to let excess run off then I hang it to dry over some newspaper to get any drips

>> Remember to label just what you have in the new bottle; not only colur but dilution as well

 

9 minutes ago, IrisLH said:

Oh I just realized.. we have things like 'terpentine' which is white spirit and is also used as a thinner for paint, and 'wasbenzine'. They seem to translate to the following things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gas

You think that works? I don't want to ruin my dye  

No, no, no, no

[IrisLH]

9 minutes ago, fredk said:

Last first; do NOT use anything like white spirit or turpentine - it will not mix with the dye and may actually make the dye colour separate out

I use Methylated Spirits; it sounds like you 'spiritus'. Meths has a purple colourant in it - this has never tinted any dye or even acrylic paint I have used it in. If in doubt just dilute an egg cup full to see. I believe someone on here has pointed out that Fiebings Reducer is just a mix of alcohol and it is over priced for what it is.

I take a bottle of dye and pour it into a new HDPE bottle. HDPE = High Density PolyEthylene. You can buy them cheap off ebay. I get them at £6.60 for 6

Fiebings comes in small 120ml bottles. The new bottles are 500ml. I add about the same amount of meths, ie about 120- 130 ml

To dip dye I have stainless steel oven trays, they are about 35cm x 25 cm x 5cm deep. I pour the diluted dye in, dip the leather, hang the leather to dry, pour the dye back into the big bottle - easy-peasy

For long items I just pull them through the dye in the tray; pulling to and fro a couple of times.

I hold the the dipped leather over the tray for half a minute to let excess run off then I hang it to dry over some newspaper to get any drips

>> Remember to label just what you have in the new bottle; not only colur but dilution as well

 

No, no, no, no

Thank you for this very clear reply :). I will try this out! You think the purple/blue colour in spiritus won't even do anything to eg. a yellow dye?

Thanks for all your answers so far, I really appreciate the help!

[fredk]

2 hours ago, IrisLH said:

Thank you for this very clear reply :). I will try this out! You think the purple/blue colour in spiritus won't even do anything to eg. a yellow dye?

Thanks for all your answers so far, I really appreciate the help!

To be honest I can not be 100% certain. It does not show up in the browns or green dye. I've used meths to thin white, red and yellow acrylic paints and it did not tint the paint

Edited June 12, 2018 by fredk