Machine recommendations based on thread size instead of leather weight?

[TheMassesCo]

Hi There Folks! This is my first post, after lurking on this board for quite some time. After doing some research (mostly from Wiz and Uwe's extensive post history and wealth of knowledge) it seems like I have an idea what my needs are for my first commercial sewing machine, but still lost for which direction to go in, as it seems like I'm looking for something that may not exist. 

I would like to be able to sew using threads that range from #138--#277 (maybe but the need hasn't expressed itself yet).

I would like to be able to sew medium and soft temper leather, as well as tooling veg, bridle, latigo in thickness that range from 1/16-3/8". I make bags, wallets and belts. Not holsters or sheaths. I also will occasionally be sewing fabric linings and canvas, wool or denim. 

The CB 4500 looks like the best choice for heavier weight materials and thread but I think it's overkill for what I need, and based on info from Ryan Neel, it doesn't sound like it will handle the thinner work. I do like the 16.5" arm on those machines. 

Based on some other posts, it sounds like I might be in no man's territory and there aren't really machines that can work in the thread weight range. Do I understand that correctly or am I missing something? Any suggestions would be great to hear!

Thanks!

Patrick, The Masses

 

 

[Uwe]

The only two machines I can think of that will handle your desired range of thread and materials in a single machine is the Juki LS-2342H and the Durkopp Adler 869. Both run well over $7K and are probably worth every penny. Our collective views of what something is worth or should cost have been greatly distorted by the multitude of clone machines.

[DonInReno]

It sounds like you’ve answered your own question 95% of the way.

If this is the first commercial machine your frame of reference will quickly change after a few weeks of sewing with just about any cylinder bed model that handles 69 to 138 weight thread. 

Changing thread sizes/needles/tension settings is not difficult, but does come at a cost in both time and frustration.  

Others will have better advice on what models fit the capabilities and price point you’re looking for.  

Have fun with it and best of luck!

 

[TheMassesCo]

I was afraid that was the way this would be going! $7k is out of budget. Based on this then, which side of #138 thread should I fall on? 

[trash treasure]

I'm surprised no one suggested the CB3200 -

If you don't absolutely need the 16.5" arm on  the 4500, It should handle your thread range just fine :

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb3200.html

Edited August 16, 2018 by trash treasure

[brmax]

I seriously think the choice in the projects requiring thread size you want is your best path.  This can be thinner or thicker material thickness in the same products of others. 

In that your post title or description is excellent!

It is tough for sure, but there is a initial reason for all this hobby of yours, so its that path to keep in narrow focus. 

 

Good day

Floyd

[TheMassesCo]

4 hours ago, trash treasure said:

I'm surprised no one suggested the CB3200 -

If you don't absolutely need the 16.5" arm on  the 4500, It should handle your thread range just fine :

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb3200.html

I was considering this one as well... I was under the impression that it still can't sew material thinner than 1/8th". Is that true?

[Wizcrafts]

3 minutes ago, TheMassesCo said:

I was considering this one as well... I was under the impression that it still can't sew material thinner than 1/8th". Is that true?

I have a CB4500, which is the big brother of the CB3200. I have sewn leather as light as ~6 ounces on it - with #92 bonded nylon thread. When it comes to sewing thin leather, it must be firm or it tends to get pushed down into the throat plate, or worse, into the hole in the feed dog. So, in those instances, I may remove the feed dog and change the throat plate to a flat one that has a narrowish slot. Further, when using thin thread, I back off the thread tension on the check spring and top tension disk, balancing via the bobbin tension spring.

[CowboyBob]

Yes,all machines have a range of thickness & thread size they can sew.Machines that use thicker thread normally won't handle thin thread & thin material.Sometimes heavier machines can be adjusted for thinner thread & material but then you'll have to re-adjust it for larger thread & thicker material.So the best answer no one wants the hear is buy 2 machines.One for thicker that uses heavier thread & one for the lighter.Since your starting out you'll have to figure out which one is better suited for you.

[TheMassesCo]

This is good advice, although not for the business budget! It makes sense to me to buy a machine down the road that would allow me to sew linings and fabrics with finer detail and precision and something like the 3200 for the bag bodies. Thank you for this help!

[brmax]

Well congrats! I think you made a focused decision. Now just narrowing it down to calling Alexander or Bob on the 3200. 

It will be great to hear from you in the times ahead with other machine selections benefitting your company. 

This is fun spending others money 

 

Good day

Floyd

[SolarLeatherMachines]

3 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

Yes,all machines have a range of thickness & thread size they can sew.Machines that use thicker thread normally won't handle thin thread & thin material.Sometimes heavier machines can be adjusted for thinner thread & material but then you'll have to re-adjust it for larger thread & thicker material.So the best answer no one wants the hear is buy 2 machines.One for thicker that uses heavier thread & one for the lighter.Since your starting out you'll have to figure out which one is better suited for you.

Exactly Right.  

[DonInReno]

On 8/16/2018 at 1:13 AM, TheMassesCo said:

 Based on this then, which side of #138 thread should I fall on? 

My suggestion to a friend who has never owned a commercial machine was to get an old $500 triple feed, walking foot, flat bed from singer, consew, Juki, or whoever - half worn out and needing minor adjustment is about right.  This machine will not be ideal for leather bags, it’s not as sexy as a fancy new machine, you’ll have to learn how to fix it, in the end it may not be liked and will gather dust on a back shelf, but no other machine will teach as much about the capabilities and limitations for such a low price.  If it’s used for a month or year it’ll be worth as much as you paid for it so the freakin’ machine has almost ZERO cost other than the time invested, which I would consider an education expense.   It will be the machine you’d lend to a friend in your same position.  Everything learned will transfer to a cylinder bed machine either larger or smaller.