Walking foot with synchronized binder

[talon]

I'm looking to pick up a machine for  light to medium sewing. canvas and leather up to about 10 oz max.   I also am looking for a machine that has the option of using a synchronized binding attachment.  This leads me to machines like the Pfaff 335  and clones.   Generally speaking, within each manufacturer I'm looking to machines pre-configured for a binder, but would need to purchase parts required to use it without a binder (Not sure of everything required here). I'm also looking for large bobbin when given an option. 

Here are the options I've found. I'd appreciate any feedback on these manufacturers. 

• Consew Model 277RBFS-

• Seiko LSC-8BLV-1

• TECHSEW 2600 PRO

  • appears that it can accept a binder, but not sure if it requires additional parts to do so.

• RELIABLE MSK-335B

• HIGHLEAD GC2698-1B

• Pfaff 335

• Juki DSC-246

• Cowboy 7335

What does it take to convert from binder to standard walking foot on this style of machine?  How will part cost and availability compare across these models?  Is it better to have the knob for stitch length and separate reverse leather?    Thanks! I look forward to hearing any feedback on these. 

-T

 

[SARK9]

Another model worth a look (if you encounter one) is the Mitsubishi CU-865-22. It uses several of the synchronous binding accessories common to the Pfaff-335 type machines and has the larger *M* style bobbin.

 

-DC

[Wizcrafts]

Before you choose a make and model, be aware, if you buy a machine set-up from the factory with a synchronized binder, it probably won't have a forward moving feed dog (no bottom feed assist). Most just have an up/down motion in time with the needle and take-up. In those machines the conversion cost may be meaningless because they probably can't normally be retrofitted to have a normal feed motion. Too many parts are not there.

In effect, these are dual feed machines, with needle and inside foot moving and outer foot jumping up and down.

You might be better off buying one machine for binding and another for regular seam stitching.

[RockyAussie]

I have seen plenty of cheap conversion kits out of China for converting a 335 style machine into a synchronised binder but not the other way around. I would think about getting a 335 with the moving dog foot and then converting if needed. From memory the cost was less than $100 and I can dig that out if you want to have a look further.

[SARK9]

10 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

[snip] Most just have an up/down motion in time with the needle and take-up. In those machines the conversion cost may be meaningless because they probably can't normally be retrofitted to have a normal feed motion. Too many parts are not there.

Its possible you were referring to the "small arm" cylinder arm mechanism (commonly called the Pfaff 335 style etc) vs. the large arm (Singer 153 etc).

The small arm type doesn't have the "4-motion" or eliptical feed dog movement...rather it tracks front-to-back with the needle and inner foot, but does not lift and descend with each cycle. The feed dog does indeed move with the needle, powered by the same mechanism that makes the binder plate's motion "synchronous"  with the feed dogs. The material is trapped under pressure between the inner foot and moving feed dog, and its surprisingly positive, as it does take a good bit of force to drag your binding and materials thru a right angle binder. Mine feeds like gangbusters when the binder specific needle plate, feed dog, and inner/outer foot set are replaced with the standard parts. The 335 accessories are available in any quality and price range you like.

Quote

In effect, these are dual feed machines, with needle and inside foot moving and outer foot jumping up and down.

Virtually all "walking foot"  machines have the needle and inner foot synched with the feed dog while the outer foot "jumps up and down" to hold your materials in place as the needle resets for the next stitch. Apologies if the type of machine you are referring to is built like the Singer model 78, which truly has "no lower feed".

 

-DC

Edited September 2, 2018 by SARK9

[talon]

I started checking around and found that on the Juki DSC-246 they have instructions and part lists for converting them.  The describe it as converting from a 'horizontal feed' to a "elliptical feed".  Where the "horizontal feed" is the machine with the binding attachment. Any ideas on what that means?  It also seems like they may be describing the what SARK9 is saying when they describe the feed dog, it seems they want it set to a specific protrusion. 

You can see what I'm describing in the manual here http://www.juki.co.jp/industrial_j/download_j/manual_j/dsc240/menu/dsc246,-7/pdf/instruction_eg.pdf

-T

[dikman]

??? I thought it was pretty self-explanatory, much as SARK9 described it - with a binder attachment the feed dog moves back and forth in a horizontal fashion and the extra parts allow it to be changed to an elliptical (conventional, i.e up/down/back/forth) movement. It's unclear, however, if the replacement feed dog has teeth on it (it still looks smooth to me).

Basically what you're asking for.

[Matt S]

22 hours ago, talon said:

• Seiko LSC-8BLV-1

[snip]

What does it take to convert from binder to standard walking foot on this style of machine?

20 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Before you choose a make and model, be aware, if you buy a machine set-up from the factory with a synchronized binder, it probably won't have a forward moving feed dog (no bottom feed assist). Most just have an up/down motion in time with the needle and take-up. In those machines the conversion cost may be meaningless because they probably can't normally be retrofitted to have a normal feed motion. Too many parts are not there.

In effect, these are dual feed machines, with needle and inside foot moving and outer foot jumping up and down.

You might be better off buying one machine for binding and another for regular seam stitching.

As it happens last week I bought a Seiko LCW-8BL (large bobbin WF cylinder bed) that had been converted to a synchronised binder machine, I think equivalent to the 8BLV. To convert it back required the following parts:

(1) Moving bed plate (with attached binder shell) removed and bobbin cover plate reinstalled

(2) Feed dog replaced with original

(3) Both presser feet replaced with normal 111 style

(4) Needle plate replaced with original

(5) Feed-dog raising eccentric reinstalled (had been replaced with a non-raising sleeve)

Most of these parts were simple jobs that anyone who can operate a screwdriver can do. However the feed-dog raising eccentric needed about a half dozen parts removed and replaced and the eccentric retimed.

11 hours ago, SARK9 said:

Its possible you were referring to the "small arm" cylinder arm mechanism (commonly called the Pfaff 335 style etc) vs. the large arm (Singer 153 etc).

The small arm type doesn't have the "4-motion" or eliptical feed dog movement...rather it tracks front-to-back with the needle and inner foot, but does not lift and descend with each cycle. The feed dog does indeed move with the needle, powered by the same mechanism that makes the binder plate's motion "synchronous"  with the feed dogs. The material is trapped under pressure between the inner foot and moving feed dog, and its surprisingly positive, as it does take a good bit of force to drag your binding and materials thru a right angle binder. Mine feeds like gangbusters when the binder specific needle plate, feed dog, and inner/outer foot set are replaced with the standard parts. The 335 accessories are available in any quality and price range you like.

Just to confuse things (my special skill in life) I have a clone of the Juki 246. They have the small-end cylinder bed but somehow manage to fit in a 4-motion feed-dog and a M-style bobbin, which I think is quite unusual. Size 138/20 thread is just fine and 207/13 will often work in the needle. The needle motion is still elliptical/pivoting unfortunately (my Pearson/BUSM #6 has spoiled me for rectangular feed so I'm lusting after a Juki 1341 or 1342...).

[SARK9]

15 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Just to confuse things (my special skill in life) I have a clone of the Juki 246. They have the small-end cylinder bed but somehow manage to fit in a 4-motion feed-dog and a M-style bobbin, which I think is quite unusual.

One of my last functioning synapses is insisting there may have been some subclass of the 335 (or a closely related casting) that HAD a 4-motion feed option, but I think its just a dodge to have way more Bailey's dumped in the decaf. 

-DC

[talon]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

Just to confuse things (my special skill in life) I have a clone of the Juki 246. They have the small-end cylinder bed but somehow manage to fit in a 4-motion feed-dog and a M-style bobbin, which I think is quite unusual. Size 138/20 thread is just fine and 207/13 will often work in the needle. The needle motion is still elliptical/pivoting unfortunately (my Pearson/BUSM #6 has spoiled me for rectangular feed so I'm lusting after a Juki 1341 or 1342...).

Matt, 

Just curious, what is your 246 clone?

 

[Matt S]

6 hours ago, talon said:

Just curious, what is your 246 clone?

Wimsew W246. It's a locally badged Chinese clone by Protex.

[R8R]

I am looking at the Techsew 2600 and I am wondering if it can swap between horizontal (synchro binder) and elliptical feed the same way the Juki 246 can? Techsew sells the synchro binder kit (binder plate, feed dog and throat plate, etc) but they don't post manuals so hard to say if it's the same procedure and set up as the Juki.

I got a quote for a new Juki 246 and they seem to be over-priced. Over $5k for the NON automatic version.