Why do cylinder machines not have attachments for converting to flat tops

[chrisash]

Looking at these Cowboy cylinder machines and wondering why the do not have built in lugs so you could easily fit a attachment to make them flat beds if required

Best part on 100 years ago the Singer 29K models had lugs built in and a table option you could by

No doubt many have made their own fittings that fit on , but it should be a simple just drop in existing slots or catches

Never had one so only going on images, so may be totally wrong

[DarkGoku]

I have a cobra class 4 that have a flat bed attachment over the cylinder arm. I swore I saw a cowboy cylinder arm machine with one as well. On the cobra website I ordered mine for $95 as an accessory after I realized they made one:) If you haven't contacted them yet, I would ask them at Toledo.

[alpha2]

My CowBoy came with a removable table. I know someone on here, probably Uwe, makes one even better.

Jeff

[plinkercases]

Uwe's are beautiful pieces of work.

[Rockoboy]

I made my own to fit on my 227r copy. At the time I made mine, I had not heard of such an item for sale, but apparently they are available.

[Joon1911]

Uwe’s is 1000% better than the one that all the clone maker’s (I think they’re all the same, but I’m not 100% certain)

Here’s a pic of mine mounted to my C4.  Worth every penny!

[Uwe]

Thanks for the endorsment @Joon1911!

Below is the installation video for my UT-441 flatbed attachment (I'm working on another batch and they'll be in stock again next week.) 

The flatbed attachment may look simple and obvious now, but it was a bit of an engineering challenge to come up with a design that uses existing mount points while making it functional, solid, and easy to mount. 

 

[Trevor Baret]

1 hour ago, Uwe said:

Thanks for the endorsment @Joon1911!

Below is the installation video for my UT-441 flatbed attachment (I'm working on another batch and they'll be in stock again next week.) 

The flatbed attachment may look simple and obvious now, but it was a bit of an engineering challenge to come up with a design that uses existing mount points while making it functional, solid, and easy to mount. 

Uwe - that is just a beauty to behold...  

I have no doubt that it was an engineering challenge - but "simplicity" so often is.  

I am a big fan of good design, and this is a great example.  Thank you for your effort and the great result that you have achieved.  

I am in Australia, so postage would probably cost more that the article itself...  But if you were closer, I would be tempted to buy your flatbed attachment, simply because it is such great design (even though I don't have the Cowboy to attach it to...  yet...)

[JJN]

@Uwe, I have a Juki LS-1341 that came with a nearly unusable flatbed attachment. It bolts to the table, not the machine. Do you have plans to make your style flatbed for other machines such as the 1341?

[chrisash]

The Uwe one looks great and a good solution, but my whole point was the castings or table should be made, to allow a table to just drop over the cylinder arm and be stable without having to unscrew bits as its such a obvious requirement for many users

[Constabulary]

ask the manufacturers   I think the demand is not big enough - there are just a few who really need an FBA in comparison to the number of manufactured cylinder machines. Singer 29K is a different story, it is "universal" repair machine. But f.i. for the Singer 45K and Adler 5 they supplied a heavy cast iron FBA.

[jimi]

 

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

But f.i. for the Singer 45K and Adler 5 they supplied a heavy cast iron FBA.

And very practical and no fuss for mounting. Just one screw and it stays solid for working. If you have the swing guide on then you use the same screw, and it leaves you room to put the standard guide back on again if needed.There were rectangular ones available also.

 

[chrisash]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

ask the manufacturers   I think the demand is not big enough - there are just a few who really need an FBA in comparison to the number of manufactured cylinder machines. Singer 29K is a different story, it is "universal" repair machine. But f.i. for the Singer 45K and Adler 5 they supplied a heavy cast iron FBA.

But is it a case that demand is there but nobody ask's and just makes do, versatility is often a very good selling point and we are not talking rocket science

That 45K solution looks so good, simple and effective, but unfortunately would possibly interfere with any other attachments of the modern machines

[jimi]

20 minutes ago, chrisash said:

but unfortunately would possibly interfere with any other attachments of the modern machines

 not sure what ones you mean??

[Scoutmom103]

jimi where did you get your attachments?  I love those edge guides.

 

 

Uwe did you make the thumb wheel for the small ratching device that is holding your screwdriver bit?  I've never seen one like that before.  I love the design of your table attachment.  Functional and beautiful.

 

[jimi]

27 minutes ago, Scoutmom103 said:

jimi where did you get your attachments?  I love those edge guides.

Hi Scoutmom, these guides are in the parts book for the singer 45k´s. The first one is Simanco and the other two from the Adler 4 or 5. The slot where the screw drops in on the Adler type is wider, so you can use the Adler on the Singer but you can´t use the Singer on the Adler.  you can find them on Ebay from time to time, jimi.

Edited September 15, 2018 by jimi

[Uwe]

100 years ago most people bought new industrial sewing machines from the companies that designed AND built them. There was a small cobbler or shoe repair shop in most villages or neighborhoods, which accounted for a good portion of new machine sales. The needs of those small shops that needed versatile machines entered into the design of the machines back then.

Nowadays, I suspect that cobblers, small custom shops and hobbyists account for well below 1% of new industrial machine sales from Juki, Durkopp Adler, or any of the other OEM manufacturers who still develop new machine designs. It makes no economic sense for them to spend effort on design requirements of such a tiny demographic. They design for the big companies who set up production facilities with hundreds of single-purpose machines. Those companies do not want table attachments. They want a separate workstation for every production step. If they need a flatbed for one production step, they just use a flatbed machine.

The old-but-not-ancient cylinder arm machine designs like the Juki TSC-441, Juki LS-341, Durkopp Adler 205, and several others actually DO have one or more accessory mount points integrated into the cylinder arm. The OEM companies just never designed or produced a flatbed table attachment for those machines, at least to my knowledge. I highly doubt Juki was involved in the design of the standard, table-mounted flatbed table that you can buy from the 441 clone dealers.

 

 

[suzelle]

Great stuff here! Love the photos!

[chrisash]

On 9/15/2018 at 12:59 PM, Uwe said:

100 years ago most people bought new industrial sewing machines from the companies that designed AND built them. There was a small cobbler or shoe repair shop in most villages or neighborhoods, which accounted for a good portion of new machine sales. The needs of those small shops that needed versatile machines entered into the design of the machines back then.

Nowadays, I suspect that cobblers, small custom shops and hobbyists account for well below 1% of new industrial machine sales from Juki, Durkopp Adler, or any of the other OEM manufacturers who still develop new machine designs. It makes no economic sense for them to spend effort on design requirements of such a tiny demographic. They design for the big companies who set up production facilities with hundreds of single-purpose machines. Those companies do not want table attachments. They want a separate workstation for every production step. If they need a flatbed for one production step, they just use a flatbed machine.

The old-but-not-ancient cylinder arm machine designs like the Juki TSC-441, Juki LS-341, Durkopp Adler 205, and several others actually DO have one or more accessory mount points integrated into the cylinder arm. The OEM companies just never designed or produced a flatbed table attachment for those machines, at least to my knowledge. I highly doubt Juki was involved in the design of the standard, table-mounted flatbed table that you can buy from the 441 clone dealers.

I guess you are right, you only need to look on this forum to see the numbers of 20-100 year old machines still being used so few buying the new machines unless really needed

The size of thread is often talked down  "machine xxx will only use #92 thread" and so on makes me wonder why so much emphasis on  138 or 207, i can understand the aesthetics of a thicker thread but if anyone has ever tried to pull apart two parts of leather sewn in 92 thread its a very strong thread. I do understand that 207 and above have their place specially when half buried in a groove for protection against heavy wear, but 92 fits the bill for many leather requirements  as well as 138

Edited September 18, 2018 by Wizcrafts
Edited source code to separate reply from quoted content

[Matt S]

18 minutes ago, chrisash said:

The size of thread is often talked down  "machine xxx will only use #92 thread" and so on makes me wonder why so much emphasis on  138 or 207, i can understand the aesthetics of a thicker thread but if anyone has ever tried to pull apart two parts of leather sewn in 92 thread its a very strong thread. I do understand that 207 and above have their place specially when half buried in a groove for protection against heavy wear, but 92 fits the bill for many leather requirements  as well as 138

Larger thread is often desired for aesthetic as well as practical reasons. I have a strong dislike for commercial leathergoods sewn with skinny thread. Look at wallets (of any price) in the local department store and you'll see TKT40/V69 thread at the most, and probably a size or two smaller. I suspect that it's done for speed and cheapness -- thin thread allows the use of more commonly available garment weight machines, costs less per yard, and allows more items to be sewn between bobbin changes. I've had plenty of commercial wallets break threads in a short amount of use, which really doesn't impress.

Rightly or wrongly thin thread looks cheap to me, and I believe that this goes some way to implying the quality of my products. I put time and care into the design and manufacture of my goods, and use nothing smaller than TKT20/V138, except where technical reasons require me to use TKT40/V69.