vegan leather The new trend in leather that they want to create

[migdelysleather25]

In this case, we will talk about a very controversial topic and it is related to the doubts that represent the origin and characteristics of two types of leather, vegetable and vegan. They are the same? Are we really talking about green and sustainable products? 

As a result of the work carried out by the different organizations that fight for the rights of animals for many years, different campaigns have been generated that encourage consumption and the acquisition of products that do not involve animal cruelty in their processes. These campaigns are directed not only to people who practice the vegan lifestyle, but to all those who believe and defend the rights of animals.

to expand the information I leave my post related to ecological leather or vegan leather

[Northmount]

Vegan's are totally against anything that is assumed to harm an animal and in general will not use any animal based items.

Vegetable tanned leather is a method of tanning, not related to Vegans at all.  Vegetable tanned leather uses tannins from various plant sources to tan leather.  Vegetable tanned leather is able to be tooled and molded into various shapes as opposed to other tanning methods.  Do a little research, look up vegetable tanning on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanning_(leather)#Vegetable_tanning

Tom

[battlemunky]

If it comes from an animal hide, it is a leather. If it is not leather, it is a fabric or other textile. End of story. There is no such thing as a vegan leather unless you count the fact that cows themselves are vegan, but there are a lot of other leathers than cow leather.

I have been vegan. I am married to one (most of the time, sometimes she eats eggs/dairy). Not all vegans are militant. My wife realizes that leather is mostly a by product of the meat industry and most leathers aren't made specifically for the leather. Not every animal lover/protectionist/ethicist/vegan is like this. Some are rigid and some are far more relaxed. 

I read the article from the OP. Its similar to an advertiser IMO when someone drops in, makes a single post with a link in it and *poof* disappears. 

Liquid leather/nylon leather...Those are super not leather. It's like dehydrated water. It doesn't exist.

@migdelysleather25, this is a "came off an animal" leather forum. Regardless of one's desire to carry or use non-animal products, that what this forum is. It's almost like trying to argue religion here. We WANT to work with leather and I think I can say on behalf of everyone on here that we aren't looking for alternatives to leather and we're pretty good at finding the textiles we need to compliment our products. If you want to learn more about "came off an animal" leather, welcome. If not, please don't try to troll. We all know there are non-leather options out there.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Amen to @battlemunky  I first read the original post much earlier than the rest of you and opted not to say anything until I had a bit to think about it.  I too read it as an attempt to push a product or agenda and still do at this point.  I thank you for your approach on this one.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and all.

 

[JazzBass]

I too, was going to remain silent on this one. (BIG fail...I feel a diatribe coming on)

Ok - I'm a hypocrite. I do love animals. But the truth is that I often love them on a bun, or on my plate.

I just adopted a litter of cats that found their way into my condo complex, and donate to animal shelters etc., and hope for the day when science will make it possible to "grow a steak" (or hide material) without growing and slaughtering an animal. Fine. Nice wish, and quite sincere, BUT--

We pound animal hides here. I happen to believe that whenever an animal is taken for food, that it is wrong to waste any part of it, and therefor I feel that using the hides is completely justified. To even suggest otherwise, flys in the face of what goes back to before recorded history.

@battlemunky and @NVLeatherWorx are unarguably correct. "Vegan leather"?? Oh c'mon! It's just another feel-good phrase that simply does not comport with any part of reality.

Ditto for "green" and "sustainable". You want "green"? You want to regrow rain forest? I'm all for "global greening". Double the current CO2 levels and adding a few more degrees, resulting in a couple of weeks more to the growing season will do that, and feed millions more people at the same time. Ah, but don't ever look at the science if the effects don't fit your ideology - just call someone "a denier" . Yeah, sure. I'm quite tired of those who can't recognize how many tons of ore need to be extracted by diesel guzzling machinery, plus all the energy to process it into usable material, just to make an "eco-friendly" bicycle.

Ok, I'm done ranting... for now.

[eglideride]

Well, one of my brothers ordered a Tesla. He will take delivery in two weeks. The 'salesman' used the term "vegan leather" for the upholstery. We got a good laugh out of that. We decided it was some sort of "pleather". Genuine, imitation, plastic leather. You just cant make this shi% up. 

This isn't going away anytime soon, . 

[NVLeatherWorx]

56 minutes ago, eglideride said:

Well, one of my brothers ordered a Tesla. He will take delivery in two weeks. The 'salesman' used the term "vegan leather" for the upholstery. We got a good laugh out of that. We decided it was some sort of "pleather". Genuine, imitation, plastic leather. You just cant make this shi% up. 

This isn't going away anytime soon, . 

Funny you bring up Tesla and the upholstery idea.  The makers of ALL of the Tesla interiors is based right here in my hometown and I haven't seen a single piece of artificial "leather" in their building.  They use very real animal skins that have been tanned to create their leathers that are used for everything inside the Tesla vehicles.  So, if someone sold your Brother on "vegan" for the leather he is going to be pleasantly (maybe) surprised because it should be real leather.  The one thing that Tesla does not do is go cheap on anything that is associated with their vehicles and Mr. Musk has made it abundantly clear in his business plan and model that the Tesla vehicle line is a very high-end Luxury line intended to compete with the big Sports car brands of the World.  Hell, they don't even use fake wood, it is very real and very expensive.

But you are right on the fact that you just can't make this $hi! up.  It will however go away if we can all find a way to quit acknowledging the concept and just don't give it any "air time"; eventually when you stop talking about something it just starts to slowly fade away and "die" off into the Sunset (or was that "ride" off into the Sunset? Hell, it is all the same).

[Rhale]

Vegan leather?  What? VEGAN LEATHER? What an IDIOT!!

[DJole]

Vegan leather is leather made out of vegans....
Right? 

[alpha2]

I'm sorry. All I took away from this is that the OP is allegedly from Venezuela.  I refuse to believe that anyone in Venezuela is that caught up, to worry about such things. Eating, sure...shelter, obviously, toilet paper, of course. Heck, even 1.4 million % inflation. But vegan leather? I doubt it.

Jeff

 

[Rockoboy]

2 hours ago, alpha2 said:

OP is allegedly from Venezuela

Two points come to mind ...

1. If there are any doubts as to a person's country of residence (possible subterfuge etc), that can be ascertained by the Mods.

2. I believe the OP has misspelt 'PLASTIC' in his 1st post. He spelt it 'vegan leather' ...

Are we to assume the vegans who refuse to use leather, are happy to use petrochemicals (and deal with the toxins from the manufacturing process) to produce similar items?

[Northmount]

32 minutes ago, Rockoboy said:

person's country of residence

IP address resolves to Venezuela.  OP has last visited this site on last Saturday.  Has only made this one post.

Tom

[NVLeatherWorx]

11 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

Are we to assume the vegans who refuse to use leather, are happy to use petrochemicals (and deal with the toxins from the manufacturing process) to produce similar items?

In fact, they are and that is what is the most comical of the whole Vegan thing in the first place.  To live your life thinking you are "saving" something by not eating it and using its skins for daily use items and thereby doing your part to keep this planet alive yet you espouse the greatness of artificial products and they help you in your cause when they are really nothing more than toxic chemicals and other hazardous materials as you pointed out. 

The biggest thing to take away from this whole post in the first place is that we had a person from the "movement" jump into our forums and try to make their voice heard.  However, their voice fell flat because their direction was misguided, their material was flawed and full of grammatical errors, and they were stupid enough to try it in a place where everyone knows more about their "cause" than they do.  

[Mark842]

On 12/23/2018 at 4:34 PM, NVLeatherWorx said:

Funny you bring up Tesla and the upholstery idea.  The makers of ALL of the Tesla interiors is based right here in my hometown and I haven't seen a single piece of artificial "leather" in their building.  They use very real animal skins that have been tanned to create their leathers that are used for everything inside the Tesla vehicles.  So, if someone sold your Brother on "vegan" for the leather he is going to be pleasantly (maybe) surprised because it should be real leather.  The one thing that Tesla does not do is go cheap on anything that is associated with their vehicles and Mr. Musk has made it abundantly clear in his business plan and model that the Tesla vehicle line is a very high-end Luxury line intended to compete with the big Sports car brands of the World.  Hell, they don't even use fake wood, it is very real and very expensive.

But you are right on the fact that you just can't make this $hi! up.  It will however go away if we can all find a way to quit acknowledging the concept and just don't give it any "air time"; eventually when you stop talking about something it just starts to slowly fade away and "die" off into the Sunset (or was that "ride" off into the Sunset? Hell, it is all the same).

https://electrek.co/2017/07/22/tesla-seat-options-now-vegan/

[NVLeatherWorx]

5 hours ago, Mark842 said:

https://electrek.co/2017/07/22/tesla-seat-options-now-vegan/

Thanks for the link but the Tesla interiors producer is named Deahan Solution and they only work with leather and other natural materials, no artificial materials.

[rodneywt1180b]

It's an inevitable part of life that there is no free lunch.  Even Tesla's batteries come from somewhere as does the electricity used to charge them.  It sounds like Tesla moved their seats in house according to the article.  Maybe their contract with Deahan is over?  I'm not sure that artificial "leather" is any better for the environment than the real thing.

My thought is if you want something that looks and behaves like leather, use leather.  If you're against using animal products use something else like fabric instead of trying to copy the animal product.

I think vinyl products came about because they're cheaper to produce and come in standard sizes, not because they're better or more environmentally friendly.

[JazzBass]

From that link that @Mark842 posted -

"Tesla’s mission statement is “to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.”  While many are attracted to Teslas simply because of their incredible performance or for other reasons, it’s obvious that the point of an electric car company is to offer consumers a more environmentally-friendly choice. "

Really? I don't see any Thorium reactors being used to make electricity. These cars are almost exclusively powered by fossil fuels - not to even mention the machinery and energy to dig, extract,  and refine the materials that make up the car itself.

...and fake leather is "sustainable"? The whole thing is complete idiocy.

[alpha2]

27 minutes ago, JazzBass said:

From that link that @Mark842 posted -

"Tesla’s mission statement is “to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.”  While many are attracted to Teslas simply because of their incredible performance or for other reasons, it’s obvious that the point of an electric car company is to offer consumers a more environmentally-friendly choice. "

Really? I don't see any Thorium reactors being used to make electricity. These cars are almost exclusively powered by fossil fuels - not to even mention the machinery and energy to dig, extract,  and refine the materials that make up the car itself.

...and fake leather is "sustainable"? The whole thing is complete idiocy.

You'd think that would be obvious, wouldn't you? I could try to explain what the faces look like on those poorly informed when you explain it to them, but my description wouldn't do it justice. It is a hoot to point it out to them, though!

And vinyl is a petrochemical product. You know, their replacement for leather. Priceless.

Jeff

Edited December 29, 2018 by alpha2

[TonyV]

so-called "vegan leather" is plastic, for sure.   But not vinyl, nor even from petrochemicals.  It is made of plastic derived from vegetable oil.  Yes, it's a thing.

[Rockoboy]

1 hour ago, TonyV said:

It is made of plastic derived from vegetable oil.

I would be very interested to know more about the process for making plastic from vegetable oil. Does it use copious amounts of water, lots of electricity or leave other toxic waste at the end of the process?

Methinks there is more to this story than meets the eye.

One salient point I obtain from a quick Google search "Producing 250 million tons of bioplastic plastic to replace conventional plastic, will require 100 million hectares of land, which is 7% of the arable land on earth" Wikipedia

[TonyV]

yeah, 'bioplastic' was the word I couldn't think of at the moment.

As with all things 'green', biplastics and biofuels are not nearly as green as they want us to believe.

 

As to the OP,  "vegan leather"  is just plastic, or Pleather.  A synthetic fabric and not leather at all.

"veg tan" leather is animal hide tanned by using vegetable -sourced tannins, such as oak etc.  A true leather.

[migdelysleather25]

El 28/12/2018 a las 18:38, alpha2 dijo:

Lo siento. Todo lo que la gente de esto es que OP está supuestamente de Venezuela. Me niego a creer que alguien in Venezuela is the you have to it to day, for preocuparse for tales things. Comer, claro ... refugio, obviamente, papel higiénico, por supuesto. Heck, incluso 1,4 millones de inflación. Pero ¿cuero vegano? Lo dudo

Jeff

 

 

 

¿Sabes lo que es impresionante? burlarse de la desgracia de millones de personas.

Edited January 14, 2019 by migdelysleather25

[migdelysleather25]

On 23/12/2018 at 11:43, battlemunky said:

Si proviene de una piel de animal, es un cuero. Si no es cuero, es un tejido u otro textil. Fin de la historia. No existe tal cosa como un cuero vegano a menos que cuentes el hecho de que las vacas en sí mismas son veganas, pero hay muchas otras pieles que el cuero de vaca.

He sido vegana Estoy casada con uno (la mayoría de las veces, a veces ella come huevos / productos lácteos). No todos los veganos son militantes. Mi esposa se da cuenta de que el cuero es principalmente un producto de la industria cárnica y la mayoría de las pieles no están hechas específicamente para el cuero. No todos los amantes de los animales / proteccionistas / éticos / veganos son así. Algunos son rígidos y otros mucho más relajados. 

Leí el artículo del OP. Es similar a un IMO de un anunciante cuando alguien entra, hace una sola publicación con un enlace y * poof * desaparece. 

Cuero líquido / cuero de nylon ... Esos son super no cuero. Es como el agua deshidratada. No existe

@ migdelysleather25 , este es un foro de cuero "salió de un animal". Independientemente de su deseo de llevar o usar productos no animales, ese es el foro. Es casi como tratar de discutir la religión aquí. QUEREMOS trabajar con cuero y creo que puedo decir en nombre de todos los que estamos aquí que no estamos buscando alternativas al cuero y que somos muy buenos para encontrar los textiles que necesitamos para complementar nuestros productos. Si desea obtener más información sobre el cuero "salido de un animal", bienvenido. Si no, por favor no trates de troll. Todos sabemos que hay opciones que no son de cuero por ahí.

I am placing another optics of what is being experienced with leather. I have a website where I talk about leather, products made of leather are sold. It's just an information that I've shared.

[bermudahwin]

I cannot understand your reference to optics...

If you are protesting, you're on a loser on this site, if not, you're translation does not give clarity.

Fake leathers have significant environmental impact, with disadvantages compared to leather. They have uniformity of finish and the ability to produce exactly the same every time, no scars, no warble etc. But that is hard to equate to "better".

Your 3 posts have not given me any real idea as to what you are trying to tell this Leatherworker forum.

 

[JazzBass]

Well, at least the OP didn't drop the 1 post and walk away, as was expected.
Yes, translations can be a problem, but nonetheless it seems that the universal opinion here is that: 1) there is no such thing as "vegan leather" and 2). Synthetics are not necessarily "environmentally friendly".

...unfollowing this one now. I come here to learn about a wonderful art/craft that goes back thousands of years, not to listen to fabricated "hot button" political issues. Back to work-...