I need clicker help

[DSloop]

13 hours ago, turbotexas said:

 

It is not cycling properly, the pump does not change pitch as it is under no load, the signal is not getting to the relay that controls the stroke. if the pump was under load it could be heard as in the hydronic press video. First thing to do is change the oil.

Edited March 17, 2019 by DSloop

[SolarLeatherMachines]

Check the solenoid for the spool valve.  It might be bad, and not able to fully cycle.  

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

19 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

Check the solenoid for the spool valve.  It might be bad, and not able to fully cycle.  

Where is the solenoid? What does a spoil valve look like? 

 

What I was hoping to see here is this “micro switch”  doing something? No movement that I could see? 

Edited March 18, 2019 by turbotexas

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

19 hours ago, DSloop said:

It is not cycling properly, the pump does not change pitch as it is under no load, the signal is not getting to the relay that controls the stroke. if the pump was under load it could be heard as in the hydronic press video. First thing to do is change the oil.

Oil has been changed, with no change? 

[Matt S]

Tell me if I'm talking out turn here @turbotexas but are you keeping the "trigger" down or just tapping it? Can't quite tell in your videos. My limited understanding of these old presses is that the head rises as soon as the bottom stop is hit or the trigger is released.

If you are keeping the trigger down, maybe see what the solenoid it triggers is doing. If it's only actuating the valve momentarily (no matter how long you press the trigger for) that would give similar results, in my decided non-expert opinion.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

6 hours ago, Matt S said:

Tell me if I'm talking out turn here @turbotexas but are you keeping the "trigger" down or just tapping it? Can't quite tell in your videos. My limited understanding of these old presses is that the head rises as soon as the bottom stop is hit or the trigger is released.

If you are keeping the trigger down, maybe see what the solenoid it triggers is doing. If it's only actuating the valve momentarily (no matter how long you press the trigger for) that would give similar results, in my decided non-expert opinion.

I’ve tried both ways... it’s only a split second and it shuts off on its own! In the beginning of the thread, I posted a YouTube video of the exact same machine... it seems the adjustable knob has been removed in that video? So I’m not sure where to go? It does have a “micro switch” below the table near the pump and motor? I’ll start looking at that next! I’m out of town for a few days, so I’ll hope a lightbulb goes off in one of y’all heads! 

Hopefully someone has a similar unit, and we can compare wiring? 

[Matt S]

On 3/19/2019 at 1:46 AM, turbotexas said:

I’ve tried both ways... it’s only a split second and it shuts off on its own! In the beginning of the thread, I posted a YouTube video of the exact same machine... it seems the adjustable knob has been removed in that video? So I’m not sure where to go? It does have a “micro switch” below the table near the pump and motor? I’ll start looking at that next! I’m out of town for a few days, so I’ll hope a lightbulb goes off in one of y’all heads! 

Hopefully someone has a similar unit, and we can compare wiring? 

Hey TT, this may be a case of the blind leading the blind but in my definitely non-expert opinion I agree that that microswitch and the thing that actuates it is something to look at next. Perhaps the microswitch is jammed "in" and tells the solenoid that the head has reached the bottom of travel all the time? There doesn't look like there's much of that white nubbin sticking out.

[chrisash]

For Christ sake stop putting your fingers and hand under the top whilst its running, only make adjustments when the top is swung away

[SolarLeatherMachines]

Your spool valve is where all the hoses come together.  It sounds like the electric solenoid that activates the spool valve is bad, and not fully cycling.  find the spool valve and see if you can find a replacement.  Parker would probably have a match.  

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

Thanks all! I’m out of town working, so I’ll get back to this in a few days! I drive a truck for living! 

9 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

Your spool valve is where all the hoses come together.  It sounds like the electric solenoid that activates the spool valve is bad, and not fully cycling.  find the spool valve and see if you can find a replacement.  Parker would probably have a match.  

Where the hoses come out of the pump? Or at the cylinder? 

15 hours ago, chrisash said:

For Christ sake stop putting your fingers and hand under the top whilst its running, only make adjustments when the top is swung away

Yes sir! Good advice! 

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

16 hours ago, Matt S said:

Hey TT, this may be a case of the blind leading the blind but in my definitely non-expert opinion I agree that that microswitch and the thing that actuates it is something to look at next. Perhaps the microswitch is jammed "in" and tells the solenoid that the head has reached the bottom of travel all the time? There doesn't look like there's much of that white nubbin sticking out.

That’s where I’m looking next! From the wires, it goes from a panel, to the head, then back into that micro switch thing, that looks like it activates the fluid to move things in the cylinder! 

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

I’m wondering if this isn’t working correctly because I don’t have a “phase converter” on this? That it’s not getting the proper voltage to make it cycle? 

[Matt S]

8 minutes ago, turbotexas said:

I’m wondering if this isn’t working correctly because I don’t have a “phase converter” on this? That it’s not getting the proper voltage to make it cycle? 

Well your pump motor is turning, which is probably the only part of your press that relies on 3-phase so the answer is "probably no". Chances are whoever converted your machine to single-phase built a Steinmetz phase conversion onto the motor  which, while far from perfect, works. It's what I run my 4-motor 3-phase splitter on and while there's consequences of slight motor imbalance, motor power derating etc. I think that your issues are switchgear related.

Have you had any success finding or tracing out your own schematic yet?

What about the other suggestions like fiddling with the microswitch and spool valve? Any success there?

Any luck fingering out how the machine is meant to sense bottom of travel?

I'm still a bit iffy about the valves/tubes on your control board, and your control electronics generally. But in the absence of a schematic or someone who knows these decades-old machines well enough to not need a schematic we're playing darts in the dark.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

Someone here sent me a manual, and from what I gathered it’s supposed to have an electrical conductive cutting material board that “completes” the circuit? I don’t see that here! They show how to “bypass that” but that doesn’t appear to be done! I found some old dies, and this wouldn’t cut through anything with them! 

I bought some cheap amazon Chinese made dues and they cut fine? But they’re really small! 

https://www.kempler.com/inventory/presses/hydraulic-press

 

I’ll call these guys and see if they’ll help, or buy it from me lol

[Handstitched]

@turbotexas   Is that valves ( tubes ) that I can see ?  The machine is how old ?  I used to restore vintage radios in another life so they look familiar.  Check those, pull them out and put them back in, contacts can tarnish. If they're white on the tops, they'ye stuffed.  If a radio didn't come to life, I checked the primary & secondary voltages on the coil. And paper capacitors  were notorious for drying out . Old resistors can have dry or broken contacts, fractures etc. 

But as mark842 mentioned  , rats love wire ' nom nom ' , they could well be the culprit. 

http://www.robinsandberg.nl/hydraulicpressmachines/tag/usm-clicker-press 

This is  like mine, but not new, mine is about  mid 1980's vintage, and 3 phase. RRP at the time $7,500, I bought mine from a former leather worker for $500-  But just waiting to win lotto to buy a 3ph generator, theres no 3ph power in my street, and single phase conversion is about $1200+....DOH !!! 

Hope you get your machine working well  

HS 

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

2 hours ago, Handstitched said:

@turbotexas   Is that valves ( tubes ) that I can see ?  The machine is how old ?  I used to restore vintage radios in another life so they look familiar.  Check those, pull them out and put them back in, contacts can tarnish. If they're white on the tops, they'ye stuffed.  If a radio didn't come to life, I checked the primary & secondary voltages on the coil. And paper capacitors  were notorious for drying out . Old resistors can have dry or broken contacts, fractures etc. 

But as mark842 mentioned  , rats love wire ' nom nom ' , they could well be the culprit. 

http://www.robinsandberg.nl/hydraulicpressmachines/tag/usm-clicker-press 

This is  like mine, but not new, mine is about  mid 1980's vintage, and 3 phase. RRP at the time $7,500, I bought mine from a former leather worker for $500-  But just waiting to win lotto to buy a 3ph generator, theres no 3ph power in my street, and single phase conversion is about $1200+....DOH !!! 

Hope you get your machine working well  

HS 

I kinda gave up on this thing... or put it on the back burner...

speaking of which, I’m thinking of pulling a control knob/assembly from a stove and putting it into the place where this adjuster is and see what happens! What’s the worst that could happen? Lol

I found a C model, but it’s trapped inside an old boot shop... they rebuilt the storefront and made it a single door... so they can’t get it out of the building! 

[Handstitched]

On 6/2/2019 at 9:40 PM, turbotexas said:

I found a C model, but it’s trapped inside an old boot shop... they rebuilt the storefront and made it a single door... so they can’t get it out of the building! 

That reminds me of an old  leather shop that closed  in the Perth CBD ( WA)  some years ago . It was on 3 levels. All the big machines presses etc.   were on the basement floor. Over the 40 years it was there, the rear doors  to the basement were blocked off, so the only way to get the machines out were through the front window by removing it,  on the shop / street level , using an industrial crane . 

Hope to hear some good news about your machine soon. Don't give up . I haven't given up on mine, I've had mine for around ten years , still confident I will one day use it,  just waiting to win lotto to buy a 3 ph generator. It will happen. 

HS