Gymnast

Thread tension and twisting

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I noticed, that more youtube videos and manuals on how to thread an industrial sewing machine actually make the thread go clockwise around something in the start.






Maybe that depends on if the person threading is right handed or left handed..some of us can use either hand, or both, some due to accident / injury / illness are more restricted. I saw a video a while ago on the BBC about a girl who was born with no arms, who operates her sewing machine ( including threading etc ) with her feet.

Edited by mikesc

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8 minutes ago, mikesc said:


Maybe that depends on if the person threading is right handed or left handed..some of us can use either hand, or both, some due to accident / injury / illness are more restricted? I saw a video awhile ago on the BBC about a girl who was born with no arms and who operates her sewing machine ( including threading etc ) wit her feet.

Yes, perhaps. The Techsew video is an official Techsew instruction. I noticed this Juki 1508 manual with the clockwise turn on the first steelplate.

http://www.juki.co.jp/industrial_j/download_j/manual_j/lu1500n/menu/lu1508/pdf/instruction_7k_1508.pdf#page=1 

I know that deviating from manufacturers threading instruction can have some issues. However it may be a way forward when your thread is kinking.

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I just got a little update on this subject. I noticed a video from Rusty, Springfield Leather Company, with a thread leaving the spool anticlockwise when you look down on it. Most spools I have seen is the other way around. If you have read the information in this "thread", you will notice, that a thread comming off this way around should be easier to handle. The video is this:

 

Edited by Gymnast

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1 hour ago, Gymnast said:

I just got a little update on this subject. I noticed a video from Rusty, Springfield Leather Company, with a thread leaving the spool anticlockwise when you look down on it. Most spools I have seen is the other way around. If you have read the information in this "thread", you will notice, that a thread comming off this way around should be easier to handle.

The thread in the video is indeed coming off counter clockwise. Your comment on noting the un-spooling direction of the thread sparked me to do a quick checked of my spools of threads, which I really didn't pay much attention to in the past. What I found was:

1. My no name probably cheap Chinese 8 oz black and white nylon comes off clockwise.

2. All my Coats thread various colours (nylon and polyester) comes off their 1 lb spools clockwise.

3. My American & Efiro black nylon thread comes off counter clockwise.

From this it is obvious that different manufacturers are spooling their thread differently, may have something to do with thread size, thread type, spool size or some technical spec. Maybe one of the dealers could do a quick check and see if their thread in different thread sizes comes off the spool differently.

For me the direction of how it comes off the spool doesn't seem pose a problem but more related to the size of the spool, 8 oz vs 1 lb with my problem child being the 8 oz spool. 

kgg

 

 

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1 hour ago, kgg said:

For me the direction of how it comes off the spool doesn't seem pose a problem but more related to the size of the spool, 8 oz vs 1 lb with my problem child being the 8 oz spool. 

Right, with your redesign of the thread stand by rolling off the thread, it should make no change, because I think the bonded thread will be in a "relaxed" state when stored on the spool. So some twisting will be introduced by the thread comming off the end of the spool, which is the normal case for leatherworkers. For my little machine, I am sure, that I had to make the threading different in the two cases according to this spooling direction.

I watched two other videos on threading of Cowboy machines from SLC, and they show spools with thread comming off clockwise.

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16 minutes ago, Gymnast said:

For my little machine, I am sure, that I had to make the threading different in the two cases according to this spooling direction.

I guess we all need to be more conscious of thread / stitching problems when they occur and eventually they will. We need to not only suspect the normal culprits but the direction of how the thread twists as it is spooled off. This can affect tension not only for the top thread but the bobbin thread particularly nearing the end of what is left on the bobbin and when we are pushing any machine to it's normal sewing limits or beyond.

 

30 minutes ago, Gymnast said:

I watched two other videos on threading of Cowboy machines from SLC, and they show spools with thread comming off clockwise.

It would be nice to know who the manufacture(s) of the thread, the thread sizes and type were.

kgg

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9 minutes ago, kgg said:

It would be nice to know who the manufacture(s) of the thread, the thread sizes and type were.

Yes. I have asked this question to SLC in one of their youtube videos, they allow to comment on. It seems that they do respond normally there. Furthermore I placed a link to here. So hopefully they will answer. But from you we know, that American & Efiro  (or should it be Efird?) seems to produce thread with the counter clockwise unspooling http://www.amefird.com/ 

 

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7 hours ago, Gymnast said:

But from you we know, that American & Efiro  (or should it be Efird?) seems to produce thread with the counter clockwise unspooling http://www.amefird.com/ 

Ah, it's getting bad when I cann't read my own writing, must be the long Victoria Day weekend. Yes, it should have been American & Efird. When I checked the spool the funny thing is the label indicates it was made in Canada and dyed in the USA. So from that the dying process occurs after the thread is manufactured. The thread was a 1lb spool of Anefil Nylon T135 (V138,Tkt20) black bonded nylon.

kgg

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On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:14 AM, chrisash said:

With small cops you can change the direction the thread comes off the cop by turning it upside down, as there is no obvious bottom like larger cones

I tried a test with the same thread spool upside down:

281716610_spoolupsidedown.thumb.jpg.0ff3a0cc0fc73fc06008f3403c966432.jpg

It did Work. In my case the first thread guide is only about double hight, and it may be somewhat low. I repeated the three ways of threading like I presented above in second video. I was not able to get kinks with any of them.

One way of interpreting the result is this: As presented in first video, then any tensioner or simple thread guide will twist in one direction only. The only way to twist otherwise is to make the thread run anticlockwise around something while going forward. So in most cases you will get only one way of twisting from the machine. When the unspooling at the same time makes twisting, so the thread near the spool becomes even more twisted, then kinks is created. With the spool upside down, so the thread comes off anticlockwise, then the twisting in most cases will be less near the spool.

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Interesting idea, the only potential problem I can see is that what is now the bottom of the spool will have to be a very tight fit against the "base" as loose coils will have a tendency to gather there and may catch.

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10 hours ago, dikman said:

Interesting idea, the only potential problem I can see is that what is now the bottom of the spool will have to be a very tight fit against the "base" as loose coils will have a tendency to gather there and may catch.

I agree with you. I tried to cope somewhat with this problem (look at picture) and I did not see it in my trials. If some of the loose coils of thread drops to much Down and around the cone of thread, you can get peaks in thread tension or perhaps catch the thread. Please notice, that I placed a tape around the edge of the base of the spool. The thread passes this edge, and it needs to be smooth. Otherwise the thread easily catch a scratch there.

1945392966_Spoolbuttumup.thumb.jpg.a238afc8ebdb7bfccaff35c6fa9af613.jpg

Perhaps someone else have a better idea to make upside Down of such a spool.

Edited by Gymnast

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I would think that if a piece of thin foam with a slice half way through could be placed just before the first stand eye the thread could then have any backward movement stopped thereby not allowing the thread to ever drop to the underside of the cone. For some cones it would be easy to print out a reverse cone that had a springy centre to fit within the the thread cone hole but some only have small holes and some large. The large holes would be easy to fit up but the smaller ones would be a little more complicated. I do think stopping the thread from falling back would be the main issue and that may need  something shaped like this >.

 

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14 hours ago, dikman said:

Interesting idea, the only potential problem I can see is that what is now the bottom of the spool will have to be a very tight fit against the "base" as loose coils will have a tendency to gather there and may catch.

 

3 hours ago, Gymnast said:

I agree with you. I tried to cope somewhat with this problem (look at picture) and I did not see it in my trials.

I commend your effort and the solution you are working towards. Your spool configuration reminds me of the old fashion industrial size wooden spools or a scaled up version of the domestic spools. What I am getting is that, Gymnast didn't see in his trails the uncoiling problems which may have to do with the quality / type of the thread (brand name vs unknown manufacturer) and dikman pointed out the problem some, me included, have had with cheap Chinese nylon 8 oz (226 g ) spools of thread particularly black. For me I tried placing the problem 8 oz spools on various angles from upside down, like Gymnast has, to the normal standing straight up position and found the best angle to have the spool placed horizontally. My solution may not solve the tension problems associated with twisting of the thread and it's affect with domestic style machines, which can be a bit more temperamental to thread issues, but should help.  

On 5/19/2019 at 2:57 PM, Gymnast said:

Yes. I have asked this question to SLC in one of their youtube videos, they allow to comment on.

Did you get a response to the thread manufacturer? Also on this side of the pond American & Efird is no longer supplying 8 oz spools, maybe it is their problem child as well or just a demand problem.

kgg

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5 hours ago, kgg said:

I commend your effort and the solution you are working towards.

Well, I actually have solved my problem. I was just interested in finding out, if it should be possible to place the spool upside Down. Then I reported what I saw. It is far too early to say anything about how it will Work in all kind of situations and different threads. But it may be a way to go for some of you.

I think kggs solution with horizontal holders is an excellent idea. In this way the unwinding from spool makes no twisting at all. But it may also have a few issues.

Unfortunately neither SLC nor American & Efird replied to the e-mails I send to them.

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13 minutes ago, Gymnast said:

Well, I actually have solved my problem.

That's what it is all about -- problem, try, try, try, ah solution, refine solution. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer but maybe for a future situation / problem someone can build upon the suggestions to resolve their issue. 

kgg

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Rocky's idea of a thread tensioner could work, something with just enough tension applied to keep any slack from occurring as the coils come off the spool.

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