Leather finish problem!

[vovi]

Hello, I am new to this forum and from Slovenia-Europe so please excuse my grammar mistakes. Let me just say that i really like this page. It is awesome and so helpful!  I am a professional dog collar maker, sewing the collars from webbing, but recently decided to start making leather dog collars. I use vegetable tanned natural leather, i paint patterns on it with Angelus acrylic paint, then I apply 6 layers of Resolene (50:50) and finish with beeswax conditioner. The problem is the Resolene finish, because after only a week of my dog wearing the collar, the top coat is totaly scratched, the paint is cracking and chipping away, its like there would be no protection layer at all. What am i doing wrong here?! What kind of durable finish do you recomend? Please help me, because i am loosing my mind

Edited June 12, 2019 by vovi

[fredk]

First questions; do you thin the paint before application? allowing the first two or three coats to soak into the leather then building up the colour with more applications of the thinned paint?

[vovi]

No, i dont thin the paint....

[vovi]

this is the picture of the collar...

IMG_9641 2.HEIC

[fredk]

I can't access that picture

[mikesc]

It is an Apple format, used in recent iphones..only half the data size of jpeg..

Converted HTH :)

[Dwight]

1 hour ago, vovi said:

Hello, I am new to this forum and from Slovenia-Europe so please excuse my grammar mistakes. Let me just say that i really like this page. It is awesome and so helpful!  I am a professional dog collar maker, sewing the collars from webbing, but recently decided to start making leather dog collars. I use vegetable tanned natural leather, i paint patterns on it with Angelus acrylic paint, then I apply 6 layers of Resolene (50:50) and finish with beeswax conditioner. The problem is the Resolene finish, because after only a week of my dog wearing the collar, the top coat is totaly scratched, the paint is cracking and chipping away, its like there would be no protection layer at all. What am i doing wrong here?! What kind of durable finish do you recomend? Please help me, because i am loosing my mind

Vovi, . . . 

I see three problems, . . . which contribute to an overall process that needs to be scrapped, . . . or severely changed.

1)  the paint definitely needs to be thinned, . . . and if you would first use a swivel knife to outline the area you want to paint, . . . you could use dye in that area, . . . which would penetrate and not ever flake off like paint will ALWAYS DO.  Paint and leather simply are not made for each other, . . . but like driving a convertible car in Iceland, . . . under certain conditions it is OK.

2)  resolene must first be thinned, . . . I do a 1 to 1 thinning, equal parts of both resolene and thinner.  It also must be put on in thin coats.   Thick coats of resolene will produce a top coat that will crack, break, flake and be generally not acceptable.  AND 2 or 3 at the most, . . . THIN coats is more than adequate to protect the leather.

3)  beeswax conditioner put on after the resolene is a total waste of a good product.  The resolene will prevent the conditioner from doing anything but laying on top of the surface, actually only giving you an added bit of shine that you can get from a much cheaper and better product:  shoe polish.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[vovi]

Thank you so much for suggestions.... so how many layers of paint would be ok? What if I lightly sand the top of the leather strap off? I have thinned the resolene  with water 1:1 and applied it very light, but it seems that there is no protection at all. Are 3 layers really enough? I have so many questions so thank you again

[Dwight]

Well, my friend, . . . I also am beginning to think you are trying to produce a product that will never age, never wear out, etc.

Leather products are by design, . . . going to wear, . . . and the harder the work, . . . the more the wear:  ie shoe soles as an example, . . . one year is a long life for leather shoe soles.  And 20 meters from the shop, . . . they will look worn and the finish will start coming off.

Your dog collars, . . . unless they are only put on for dog shows, . . . or walking the dog up and down the street, . . . they are going to show wear and scratches, etc, . . . especially if there are other dogs that interact with him/her.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[vovi]

I understand i cant make the collar to look like new for next 10 years, but still want to make something that will last more than just a few days, something more durable than this, because my dog had this collar on for a few days which is a very short period of time. As i said this is my first time working with leather so any suggestions are helpful

[fredk]

Here's how I would tackle this;

Veg tan leather, use a swivel knife or even a very sharp craft knife to cut into the grain side the pattern required - just a very shallow cut. Apply main colour dye in areas not to be painted. Thin the paint, to milk like. Apply paint in several thin coats, allow the first, second and even the third coats of thinned paint to soak into the leather, let them dry a bit, about a 1/2 hour between coats. Further coats just to get the colour density, not too many more coats. Let everything dry for at least 24 hours in a warm environment. Then apply thinned Resolene or Super Sheene. Let first couple of coats dry as per the paint. A couple more coats [4 in total] should have it all sealed. Allow to dry for at least 24 hours in a warm environment, then let it cure for at least another 24 hours - there is a difference between 'dry' and 'cured'.  Resolene is an acrylic finish which needs time to cure.

Thats just the painting bit. Hardware attached and edges bevelled and slicked before painting and after pattern cut.

 

My old favourite; this painted knife sheath. Painted with modellers acrylic paints. Lasted about 8 years in and out of a box full of chainmaille armour and other stuff. Never looked after. Still a little bit presentable but needs a repaint - when I find it again in my 'to do' boxes!

New; 

Later:

[vovi]

This looks pretty good for 8 years if you ask me. Tomorrow i will try it again with all your suggestions guys. What about sanding the top of leather off where the pattern is?

[fredk]

6 minutes ago, vovi said:

What about sanding the top of leather off where the pattern is?

Not recommended at all

[Northmount]

Thick layers of paint or finish crack and flake off with continual flexing.  Need to minimize the total thickness to avoid early failures.

Tom

[vovi]

I can see now that the first thing i should do is to thin the paint, because it builded up on top of the leather

[MarkCdub]

Also remember, you are painting a flat surface then bending it into a circle which causes the leather and paint to stretch.  I would recommend bending the collar into a circle first and that will pre stretch the leather, paint it while it has some curvature (not completely flat) to it.  Also try using the other tricks others have mentioned they will all help with a longer lasting product.  Good luck.

[wizard of tragacanth]

I could be wrong, and frequently am, but I think you are going in the wrong direction with this project.

Instead of paint and Resolene, you should be using dye with a flexible top coat, such as neutral shoe polish or Snow Seal. 

However, you will also have to totally change your design concepts. You will not be able to use colors which are lighter than the leather that you are using and you will not be able to make small design elements shown in your example because dyes bleed.

Hey, I just had an idea! Try using some felt-tip pens for your design elements. I have never used them, but I think that they should work. I just tried a black Sharpie on a scrap of leather and it went on very cleanly with a crisp edge, no bleeding. Make sure that they are "permanent" markers.

nick

[GoldenKnight]

Using Sharpie permanent markers is nothing new, and a good option for small detailed work.  I have done this on several small projects for outlining the stamped letters of a name, adding more color or shading to other figures (grass, flowers, wood edges of a tree or log, ...).  The Precision/ Ultra Fine tip ones are great for that and Sharpies come in a great range of colors, so you don't have to custom mix dyes and you have color consistency for shading IF that's what you need and when they get used up a little or dried out, they are actually really useful then for light shading on figure carvings that won't see use except for being be wall hangers or shelf sitters.

However, for my larger projects nothing beats a brush and dye from a bottle - the proven way to know it is getting deep saturation into the leather.  For outdoor and animal use gear, this is essential.

It all depends on your project, depth of dye penetration needed, etc.  For veg tanned - yes, Sharpies will work for some projects for a limited task, but they need to be limited in use because they cannot be refilled, they do run out of consistrnt ink flow,  you cannot control saturation like you can with a brush, etc.

I would use the previously recommended dye techniques combined with the previous advise provided (proper swivel knife outline cuts, possible some beveling) prior to dying.  I think you'll see the results you are seeking.

Best of luck.

Edited July 22, 2019 by GoldenKnight