Overwhelmed by leather Sewing machines

[kgg]

13 minutes ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

I'm 47 yo, and I work from 7 am to about 6:30 pm Monday through Friday.  I NEED SLEEP.  And to spend time with my Wife and Family.  And so do my employees.  So, Yah, we're closed on weekends.  

Good for you, we all need time to do other things whether it's just chillin or working hard at a hobby. After I retired from the engineering gig I open up something that has always been my passion. I have set hours and don't dare darken my driveway before or after those hours or expect to be invited to leave. Have had people show up on Christmas day during the main meal. What a lot of people don't realize or care about particularly this age of order today here tomorrow is small business owners are not Walmart or Amazon and have / need a life too.

kgg

[mikesc]

But, ( and I hear you Alexander.. We all need time with our families, I've been a "one man band" too, still am, (my son helps, but he has his own stuff, likewise my wife ) for 98% of my working life )..But, What I don't get is why in the USA , businesses close for the entire weekend, ( which is often the only time available to shop for others, potential customers, who can't get away during the week, because their boss says no, or because they too are one man bands themselves and are open all week ) rather than do what so many countries do, close on Sunday..and also on another week day..like Monday ( gives a two day break )..or Wednesday ( mid-week break) ..That is still two days off..

How do you, who work all week, and close all weekend , buy from others who work all week , and who close all weekend ?

Non of my business ( I don't mean to pry ) how you arrange things or why, but I'm genuinely curious ..I've no wish to cause any offense :)

..Back in the day, when I was open to the public, I was shut Sundays ( because so was everyone else ) and also Mondays, so our family got two days break, and we could also, if we needed to, use the Monday morning or afternoon for buying things that absolutely had to be seen in person.

I don't remember everywhere being closed for the weekend when I was in the USA during 70s and 80s..maybe it is a new thing, or maybe I was in areas Florida , West Palm beach, Miami, Disney land ( Kissimmee ) , New York, Boston, San Francisco and very briefly Los Angeles..where it doesn't / didn't happen ?

Have had people show up on Christmas day during the main meal

You worked with Carnies and Circus people too ;) ..For some of them, I would make exceptions to "We are open between 10 am and 18.00 hrs" Tuesday to Saturday inclusive..

Edited August 1, 2019 by mikesc

[SolarLeatherMachines]

23 minutes ago, mikesc said:

But, What I don't get is why in the USA , businesses close for the entire weekend, ( which is often the only time available to shop for others, potential customers, who can't get away during the week, because their boss says no, or because they too are one man bands themselves and are open all week ) rather than do what so many countries do, close on Sunday..and also on another week day..like Monday ( gives a two day break )..or Wednesday ( mid-week break) ..That is still two days off..

It's all based around trucking.  Trucking companies don't deliver on Saturdays much, and not at all on Sundays.  They often deliver on Mondays, and if you're not there to receive a shipment, it's usually a $150 charge for re-delivery.  Not to mention the other 'box truck' deliveries on mondays as well.  AND the phone absolutely blows up on Monday morning with people who need help and try to call in before leaving for work in the morning.   

I seriously struggle to get certain tasks done.  Mainly because I'm in the shop SO MUCH.  My truck has needed an oil change for about 4 weeks, and I can barely get to the bank to cash my own paychecks.  But if I'm away from the shop for more than 10 minutes, I get a phone call or a nasty-gram about how I'm 'never at the shop!'

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by SolarLeatherMachines

[mikesc]

Ah..I see now :) ..Here trucks rarely deliver Saturdays..and ( with the exception of Carnies and Circus people, and a handful of others ) no trucks are allowed to roll on Sundays.. Businesses tell trucks the hours that they are open for deliveries..outside of those hours, the transport company has to accept to pay a surcharge ( taken off what they get paid ) to have someone there to receive them..or to have the driver sit in a truck park somewhere 'til the next day..the customer does not pay for that time if that happens..the transport company ( or the despatching customer who has hired them ) has to pay ( or be paid less ) for non respect of delivery times or hours..If the police ( of any version, Gendarmerie, Police Nationale see anything rolling on a Sunday that needs a truckers licence to drive it, French or foreign, they'll stop it, ( usually ) fine the driver, on the spot, escort him to a cash machine to get the money, and give him a ticket..extreme cases they'll just immobilise the truck and the driver will wait in a cell until the courts open Monday..

In reality they "look the other way" a lot, for farmers, ( a lot of agricultural and forestry stuff is allowed to roll on Sundays ) livestock usually isn't,, but.., boat transporters, removal trucks being "owner driven", trucks near ferry ports and airports, all kinds of things, but they do not have to.

Exceptional loads ( like aircraft wings on huge trailers etc ) get a pass from the equivalent of the Governor's office ( préfecture, but préfets are appointed, not elected )..as does anything military..

Edited August 1, 2019 by mikesc
corrected my "Franglais"..oops

[Starwind0]

4 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

I AM Solar Leather Machines.  I'm 47 yo, and I work from 7 am to about 6:30 pm Monday through Friday.  I NEED SLEEP.  And to spend time with my Wife and Family.  And so do my employees.  So, Yah, we're closed on weekends.  

Haha I understand for sure. There's just little options for us Austin folks who want to see machines in person. I wouldn't ask anyone to stay late either. I'm just frustrated there are few options that don't involve taking a vacation day or freight shipping. 

 

The other Dallas shop keeps trying to press their Thor machines on me but I don't like them. Cowboys are more interesting. Especially that pin striped on. I keep joking I could justify it's price as it's now art. (it's too much machine for my needs haha)

 

Currently checking out a consew 225 that popped up for cheap. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Starwind0

[Starwind0]

Oh man, I'm not really sure whats going on with my post thread haha. Sounds like this is a new discussion related to troubleshooting? Far as my adventures go, dealing with flaky craigslist people. There is some Mercury that is for sale, but there is 0 information about them online. The other one I saw, the guy admitted to having never oiled it.. steering clear of that machine! 

[brmax]

Starwind0: So were back to original post, yes a classic hijack, but I am sorry. I didn't hold my hand up and say hey, it might be a good thing to make a separate post. I am as many partly responsible. So moving forward in any case. Its likely the moderators can move many previous post to another separate post once corrective, new post is made. 

Floyd

[Silverd]

My fault entirely I'm afraid.  My apologies.

Silverd 

[brmax]

I seen the cylinder arm in the cs ads down there along with a juki 1541(standard). And as I thought you had scoped it out a bit already. 

Im not sure on parts availability on mercury brands, I could be mistaken but recall some mention of this particular. So  consider this a bit, if others can expand on that. 

 

Good day there

Floyd

[Starwind0]

All good haha

 

Juki LU-2212N-7

thoughts? Got one for 2k. Looks like a beast but it's a flat bed and a but more I want to pay if it's a flat bed. 

 

 

looks at videos. Holy crap that's a fancy machine. Im terrified of the costs to repair this thing. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Starwind0

[Starwind0]

I am not sure I could make a bag like this on that machine. I think it could do anything else, maybe. 

[kgg]

I would think the bag that you linked to probably is constructed with more then one type of machine, flatbed for certain sections and patcher / cylinder bed for other sections. The Juki LU-2212n-7 you mentioned is a production type machine that is for sure. I am not a lover of any sewing machine that is computer controlled for the hobbyist like most of us. They are in my opinion meant for factory type production with regular maintenance  and repairs being done by qualified people. The more the bells and whistles the more costly up front as well as repairs. The main problem as how I see it is going to be a question of the availability of replacement computer controllers, etc down the road let alone their cost.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

41 minutes ago, Starwind0 said:

I am not sure I could make a bag like this on that machine. I think it could do anything else, maybe.  

Leather goods manufacturers don't necessarily use one single machine to produce their wares. Travel bags like those you linked to (India) might require 3 or 4 different types of sewing machines, plus one or more kick presses for rivets, scuff feet and decorative spots. I will hazard a guesstimate that these bags are sewn using a combination of flatbed and narrow cylinder arm walking foot machines and a tall, narrow post bed machine which could have a roller feed, or might be a chainstitch needle and awl machine like a Puritan, with a minimal footprint post.

If you are thinking about making messenger bags, or briefcases, plan on buying flat bed, cylinder arm and post bed machines.

[Starwind0]

Okay, that is a fair point.. Maybe I am getting this offtrack with that bag. But it is good to have the expectation.

 

So I will only buy one machine. Under the cry once pay once mentality, how do you think this compares to say, driving to Waco and buying a 2.2k cowboy ?  Seems like a beast of a machine, but is it the right beast?

[Wizcrafts]

2 minutes ago, Starwind0 said:

Okay, that is a fair point.. Maybe I am getting this offtrack with that bag. But it is good to have the expectation.

 

So I will only buy one machine. Under the cry once pay once mentality, how do you think this compares to say, driving to Waco and buying a 2.2k cowboy ?  Seems like a beast of a machine, but is it the right beast?

I never knew there was a dealer in Waco who sells Cowboy machines. Or, is that a private sale of a used machine?

[Starwind0]

Yeah
https://makersleathersupply.com/
Looks like a reseller. Oh oops Cobra, those are.. more or less the same in my brain. 

Saw the machine, its really solid. Though I did get the machine jammed for a moment when I came out of reverse too fast. Not sure if that is a bad sign or just operator error. He didnt really know how to use its advanced features, so I am not really sure all it can do, persay. No screen / controls which is fine. The air compressor is a downside, as I am in apartment life, and thats loud. Really cool guy too.

 

What I am concerned, seeing all the computers and gizmos. If one of those fancy units goes out, will the machine stop working, and will I need to find a rare expensive part? Or if the machine needed a repair. Yikes.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Starwind0

[Wizcrafts]

47 minutes ago, Starwind0 said:

The air compressor is a downside, as I am in apartment life, and thats loud.

You really should get the quietest machine you can fine, with the best balance so it doesn't vibrate on the floor as you sew. Definitely get one with a servo motor that starts rotating from zero, rather than 200rpm.

48 minutes ago, Starwind0 said:

What I am concerned, seeing all the computers and gizmos. If one of those fancy units goes out, will the machine stop working, and will I need to find a rare expensive part?

You don't need any of those controls for home. slow speed, leather sewing. They are for factory production machines that are run hard and put up wet, 8 to 12 hours a day, at 2500 rpm and up. Just find a solid, slow speed, manually oiled, non-electronic, triple feed, (hopefully with a cylinder arm + table attachment) walking foot machine (like this CB341).

[shoepatcher]

Starwind0,

I would take samples of what you want to sew and go see Alexander at Solar Leather in Dallas.  Yah, it takes a lot of time and some expense to travel to see him but you will get a chance to see what they have and more importantly, sew on them..  After all, this is not going to be a $20.00 purchase.  That will probably answer a lot of your questions.  If you are ready to buy, take money with  you and bring it back with you to save the shipping. 

I drove 800 miles one way to pick up a long arm Adler last summer.  It was a 2 day drip and cost me $400.00 in gas, food and lodging.  However, I got a long arm Adler 767FA273 double needle  stretched to 30"with all the toys for $750.00.  That machine was over $12,000.00 new.  Yes, it has to be rebuilt but I have it in my shop with the table , and all and the Efka motor is single phase!

For the money you are going to spend, go see and sew on it.  You don't buy a car without test driving it!

glenn

Edited August 9, 2019 by shoepatcher
grammar

[mikesc]

I got a long arm Adler 767FA273 double needle stretched to 30"with all the toys for $750.00. That machine was over $12,000.00 new. Yes, it has to be rebuilt but I have it in my shop with the table , and all and the Efka motor is single phase!

I bet the grin came back when you typed that ;)

I agree with shoepatcher, take a day off, drive over to see Alexander on a weekday ( phone to say you are coming, to make sure he'll be in ;) ..he, his wife and his kids will thank you :) and you can drive back with your purchase..and you'll have met the seller, and the guy who will be supporting you.

[Starwind0]

On 8/9/2019 at 10:34 AM, shoepatcher said:

Starwind0,

I would take samples of what you want to sew and go see Alexander at Solar Leather in Dallas.  Yah, it takes a lot of time and some expense to travel to see him but you will get a chance to see what they have and more importantly, sew on them..  After all, this is not going to be a $20.00 purchase.  That will probably answer a lot of your questions.  If you are ready to buy, take money with  you and bring it back with you to save the shipping. 

I drove 800 miles one way to pick up a long arm Adler last summer.  It was a 2 day drip and cost me $400.00 in gas, food and lodging.  However, I got a long arm Adler 767FA273 double needle  stretched to 30"with all the toys for $750.00.  That machine was over $12,000.00 new.  Yes, it has to be rebuilt but I have it in my shop with the table , and all and the Efka motor is single phase!

For the money you are going to spend, go see and sew on it.  You don't buy a car without test driving it!

glenn

Oh that sounds like a sure killer deal! Though, in this case, the cost of a day off it just too premium. If I had a bunch saved up, but its a new job, and I plan to blow it all when I go in for minor surgery soon. (Frankly I tend to work weekends as it is...) The other factor is, ok I get there, I fall in love with it... I aint sure this is going to fit in my coup! So I'll be out that 350 shipping (and pay taxes for sure)

But remember, the point isn't to spend time in Dallas. I honestly didn't like Dallas when I went there last year. Its to save money on shipping, and to see it in person.. If I have to get a Dallas hotel, and pay for gas, and my vacation dat.I'll just order the tech sew @.@

That said, the Waco store has me interested. I am not sure the pros and cons of Cobras and Cowboys. The frankly look like the same machines to me. Cowboys seems a smidgen better. Which means I like its paint more, or they have a better youtube budget, ie getting  Stock & Barrel Co to do videos (he sure buys a lot of machines). Waco is near grandpa, and that store is open on weekends. So that might be my best bet

That said. I can justify a Huston trip, as I haven't actually taken a weekend trip out there yet. Though everyone tells me not to bother... (something about the drivers and road warrior?)

Edited August 13, 2019 by Starwind0

[shoepatcher]

Cowboy and Cobra are good machines.  Thor, not so sure.  I had a service man up here in Michigan work on a new Thor and the main shaft holes were drilled crooked meaning it should never have got out of the plant that way.  That said, you do what you have to do but you will regret not sewing on a machine before you buy it.  Just my opinion.

glenn

[Silverd]

You may not be too impressed with Tech sew customer service practice and attitude.  But if you don't require customer service then yes, certainly they have Canadian branded machines for sale.

Best of luck to you.

Silverd

[Starwind0]

17 hours ago, Silverd said:

You may not be too impressed with Tech sew customer service practice and attitude.  But if you don't require customer service then yes, certainly they have Canadian branded machines for sale.

Best of luck to you.

Silverd

The shipping is what gets me more than anything. I can't remember the last time I got customer support. Maybe 4 years ago when there was a defect with my ultimaker and I personally replaced the frayed heating element.  There was that time I wrote a third the document for the most popular 3d printer circuit board because I was the first customer.. for example.. or reprogrammed a laser cutter to use that logic board..  Likely, with the engineer mindset I can research and fix anything. I am more concerned about mfg defects I can't fix myself. But I'm asking who's open for labor day. Yeah I just have my vacation days planned for the next 6 months for my lasik surgery and family. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Starwind0

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Starwind0 said:

I am more concerned about mfg defects I can't fix myself.

That is why you need to go and test drive a machine. Buy from someone with a good reputation who will stand behind their machines.

2 hours ago, Starwind0 said:

But I'm asking who's open for labor day.

Best of luck on that one.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

The way I see it, Starwind0 has the following choices/options regarding buying a suitable sewing machine:

1. Take time off work and travel to a reputable industrial  sewing machine dealer and come home with a machine that does what you need.
2. Do research about the best machines for your situation that you can afford, then contact dealers and order a machine from a dealer, paying $70+ more for residential delivery (or the lower commercial rate delivered to a commercial building with a loading dock).
3. Watch local for-sale ads until a used walking foot machine shows up. Ads may be on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. Use the machine for jobs within its capabilities and hand sew the rest.
4. Buy an old iron body Singer domestic sewing machine for thin and soft leather, using a roller or Teflon foot. Expect no more than #69 bonded thread into about 1/8 to 3/6" of soft density leather, maximum. Hand sew the heavier stuff.
5. Continue to hand sew everything.