Best type of leather to use for a belt liner

[Kolton45]

I'm sure this has been gone over multiple times but I have a couple of questions and looking for recommendations on this topic. So I havnt lined a belt yet and I just had someone ask me for the first one and I'm unsure of what the best leather is for it I've seen alot ot guys say they just use a thin veg tan leather is that the best option or is one of the pig skin options a better bet? If using veg tan for the liner do you simply just seal it with a top coat and let it be if you want the color contrast dark outer light inner? And I will be using 8-9 oz herman oak for the outer and I will be tooling it thanks in advance for any help 

[Kolton45]

And I know your not supposed to use belly for belts but could you use it for linning? 

[JLSleather]

Yeah, you could.  Got a 9 oz belt, line it with some 2/3 or 3/4 and you're fine.  Some will line up to tell you about their belts 1/4" thick... but I only make 'em that heavy by specific request, and not too many want them that thick.

Whatever yer using, just be sure to use a piece that's clean and free of wrinkles.

Edited July 12, 2019 by JLSleather

[Kolton45]

56 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Yeah, you could.  Got a 9 oz belt, line it with some 2/3 or 3/4 and you're fine.  Some will line up to tell you about their belts 1/4" thick... but I only make 'em that heavy by specific request, and not too many want them that thick.

Whatever yer using, just be sure to use a piece that's clean and free of wrinkles.

Ok thank you and is the no wrinkles for cosmetic reasons or is there other reasons? Sorry if that's a stupid question I'm still pretty new with leatherwork

[JLSleather]

Well, yah, basically cosmetic... but smoother is easier to take on and off, too.

[nrk]

7 hours ago, Kolton45 said:

I'm sure this has been gone over multiple times but I have a couple of questions and looking for recommendations on this topic. So I havnt lined a belt yet and I just had someone ask me for the first one and I'm unsure of what the best leather is for it I've seen alot ot guys say they just use a thin veg tan leather is that the best option or is one of the pig skin options a better bet? If using veg tan for the liner do you simply just seal it with a top coat and let it be if you want the color contrast dark outer light inner? And I will be using 8-9 oz herman oak for the outer and I will be tooling it thanks in advance for any help 

depends on belt purpose.

casual daily usage - 7oz + 2/3oz lining

heavy duty - 8/9oz + 2/3oz lining

both for tooling

If need something elegant, with a suit, then 5/6oz +2/3oz lining

lining material depends on the belt type imho
example, i personally would line the gator belt with finished liner (goat, calf etc.)

[Kolton45]

The guy didnt specify how he was gona be wearing it he is ordering it for his dad. So do you think 8-9oz with 2-3oz would be too much for everyday use if that's how he intends to wear it? I am also gona be buck stitching this belt and it will also be my first time buck stitching so any pointers on that would be appreciated also 

[YinTx]

I have a nice belt I made from some 5 oz veg tan, no liner.  I use it to mow the yard and to do work, it gets soaked to the bone in water and sweat and grit and grime,  let it dry and it works just fine the next time.  If it was 9 oz with a 3 oz liner I wouldn't be happy, I'd feel like it would weigh more than the jeans it is holding up.

I have another nice belt I wear when I need to look decent, 7 oz with  2-3oz liner, hand stitched, looks sharp, weight doesn't bother me because I'm not working, usually sitting etc.  I don't carry, but if I did, I suspect the lighter belt wouldn't do so well.

An every day belt in 5 oz with 2 oz liner would probably be just dandy, for me anyhow.  Everyone else may differ.

YinTx

[Lobo]

I agree with the above comment regarding the intended use of the belt. A belt made for dress-up use is different from a heavy-duty belt for load carrying use.

I have made thousands of belts, lined and unlined. A very nice dress belt can be made of 6/7 or 7/8 leather with a 2/3 lining (suede or smooth). A heavy-duty gun belt requires a combination in the 12/14 range (two layers of 6/7, or 9/10 with 3/4 lining, etc). Cementing and stitching two layers of leather together offers an effect similar to plywood, much greater strength and rigidity with reduced stretching, bending, or twisting in use. A heavy-duty belt supports a load better without having to be worn so tightly that it becomes uncomfortable.

I have also made belts intended for carrying a holstered pistol and accessories using two layers of 5/6 or 6/7 with a stiffening strip of rawhide cemented and stitched into the belt body. I made a competition belt for a shooter once that used a strip of 29 gauge galvanized sheet metal for strength and rigidity.

My personal belts are made of two layers of horsehide, typically 6/7 oz, cemented flesh-to-flesh and stitched at the edges full-length. The one I am now wearing is about 12 years old and shows no signs of ever wearing out, and it always carries a full-size 1911 .45 pistol, spare magazine, and cell phone case. Horsehide is very dense, compared to cowhide, with much greater strength in use and less tendency to stretch or twist in use.

[Kolton45]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

I agree with the above comment regarding the intended use of the belt. A belt made for dress-up use is different from a heavy-duty belt for load carrying use.

I have made thousands of belts, lined and unlined. A very nice dress belt can be made of 6/7 or 7/8 leather with a 2/3 lining (suede or smooth). A heavy-duty gun belt requires a combination in the 12/14 range (two layers of 6/7, or 9/10 with 3/4 lining, etc). Cementing and stitching two layers of leather together offers an effect similar to plywood, much greater strength and rigidity with reduced stretching, bending, or twisting in use. A heavy-duty belt supports a load better without having to be worn so tightly that it becomes uncomfortable.

I have also made belts intended for carrying a holstered pistol and accessories using two layers of 5/6 or 6/7 with a stiffening strip of rawhide cemented and stitched into the belt body. I made a competition belt for a shooter once that used a strip of 29 gauge galvanized sheet metal for strength and rigidity.

My personal belts are made of two layers of horsehide, typically 6/7 oz, cemented flesh-to-flesh and stitched at the edges full-length. The one I am now wearing is about 12 years old and shows no signs of ever wearing out, and it always carries a full-size 1911 .45 pistol, spare magazine, and cell phone case. Horsehide is very dense, compared to cowhide, with much greater strength in use and less tendency to stretch or twist in use.

Ok so I need some advise with buying leather so I just do this more for a hobby and to some custom orders nothing to quite my day job over so I was originally planning on ordering a side of hermann oak 8-9oz because most of the belts I make are unlined now I'm thinking I should just get 2 bends one of 2-3 and the other of 6-7 or 7-8 so question is for you more experienced guys what is my best bet for ordering leather where I'll get the most bang for my buck 

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, Kolton45 said:

where I'll get the most bang for my buck 

EVEN THAT is a preference question.  What is the 'best bang' for my buck is to get 7/8 oz AND 3/4 oz.  Together, they make a great belt -- and I mean TOOLED belts, "jeans" (casual wear) belts, and "carry" belts - all in the 11/12 oz range.  This IS how I make them.  The 7/8 also makes great leather holsters and the 3/4 also makes  a solid leather wallet.  So... it "saves" to get both of these on hand.  I "could" get JUST 8 oz, and split the 3/4 when I need it, but I use enough 3/4 that that would actually be CREATING work for me.  And the 8 oz lets me tool relatively deeply.

The "best bang' for the guy who only wants to do a "few" (or a dozen) belts might be different.  Maybe you don't want to stock multiple thicknesses, and maybe don't want to have to buy (and /or sharpen) a splitter (I don't blame you).  In that case, maybe a guy gets some 6/7 oz.  Narrow belts can be made from a single thickness and survive just fine for "normal" wear.  I've made a number of belts this way .  But it's also thin enough that you can line it with the same leather, making it 2 layers of the same hide, and not have so much bulk it's ridiculous.  

You can play with it a bit, won't take long to get the feel for what YOU and your customers like.  Certainly, you would make one for yourself.  Then when you talk with people considering getting a belt from you - and they often won't know what they want - you can show them one they can see and feel and decide if they want one lighter or heavier.

[Lobo]

JLSLeather's response is right on. There is a big difference between leather work as a hobby and leather work as a business.

I always ordered sides of leather (usually 10 or 12 at a time) and kept several weights on hand for different applications. For belts I cut my straps out of full sides, angling from the back to the belly for lengths needed to make belts of the more common sizes requested. Most commonly used were an outer strap of 7/8 and inner (lining) strap of 6/7. I would take 5 or 6 straps from each new side, leaving two large pieces that were easier to handle when making holsters, pouches, etc. When assembling for a belt I laid out the straps in the opposite directions, back portion of the outer strap laminated to the belly portion of the lining strap, which evens out the little differences that are common on most sides.

But I was doing 35 to 50 orders per week, including several belts, so I always kept a couple of dozen belt straps in various lengths to use as needed. Not easy for a hobbyist or small producer to justify this approach.

A good approach might be to decide what finished weight you want for your belts and make them from two straps of the same weight (2 layers of 4/5 for a 8/9 finished weight, 2 layers of 5/6 for a 10/11 finished weight, etc). That way you can simplify your inventory needs and minimize supply costs for the short term.

Another tip about belt making: NEVER MISTAKE TROUSER WAIST SIZE FOR BELT SIZE! Clothing manufacturers have used "vanity sizing" for so many years that most customers have no idea what their actual belt size is. Actual belt length is usually 2" to 5" greater than stated trouser waist size. I wear size 34 trousers and my belts measure 37.5" from tip of buckle to tongue hole in use.

I always asked customers to measure a belt being used, from the tip of the buckle to the tongue hole in use. I also made it very clear that the customer was responsible for correct sizing and no returns would be accepted because of size differences. Even this did not eliminate all such problems, but most people got it right when I insisted that they take a minute and measure their belts.

Final comment: belt pricing may require attention to sizes. I have made belts from about 27" to 70". My regular pricing was for sizes up to 48" with an additional charge for longer lengths. Very long belts usually require additional time to lay out and cut the straps, and more of each side is consumed for those orders.

[Kolton45]

Thank all of you guys so much for your advice I'm pretty glad I started this post before I impulsively just started buying the first thing i though would work hahaha and pricing is something i really struggle with I havnt really made a standard for myself yet i typically just ask people how much are they willing to spend and then tell them what i can do for that price and as far as buying the leather goes I think I'm gona get a side of 7-8oz and what would be my best bet for getting 2-3oz without getting a whole side and still being able to use it for belts and card pockets on wallets and maybe the small stuff

Edited July 13, 2019 by Kolton45

[bikermutt07]

Great thread, guys. I enjoyed the read.

[nrk]

On 7/13/2019 at 2:51 PM, Kolton45 said:

Ok so I need some advise with buying leather so I just do this more for a hobby and to some custom orders nothing to quite my day job over so I was originally planning on ordering a side of hermann oak 8-9oz because most of the belts I make are unlined now I'm thinking I should just get 2 bends one of 2-3 and the other of 6-7 or 7-8 so question is for you more experienced guys what is my best bet for ordering leather where I'll get the most bang for my buck 

you can get a bend and lining from one place. SLC has both.
Have a look at their website.

Why bend? because you will have almost 0 waste of it compared to a side.
You can also cut strap of desired width of a customer (rather than buying straps)

Edited July 14, 2019 by nrk

[Kolton45]

3 hours ago, nrk said:

you can get a bend and lining from one place. SLC has both.
Have a look at their website.

Why bend? because you will have almost 0 waste of it compared to a side.
You can also cut strap of desired width of a customer (rather than buying straps)

SLC is where I order from most of the time cause I have found that they have the best customer service and fair prices and the only reason why I was saying 2 bends is cause of cost and not as much over head I ended up getting a side of hermann oak 7-8 oz cause I will be able to use the extra cut off for other projects and I just went with a belly of hermann oak 2-3oz to cut cost and see if I like it before investing in a bunch of it and I purchased a strap cutter 

[Brianm77]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 10:24 AM, Kolton45 said:

Thank all of you guys so much for your advice I'm pretty glad I started this post before I impulsively just started buying the first thing i though would work hahaha and pricing is something i really struggle with I havnt really made a standard for myself yet i typically just ask people how much are they willing to spend and then tell them what i can do for that price and as far as buying the leather goes I think I'm gona get a side of 7-8oz and what would be my best bet for getting 2-3oz without getting a whole side and still being able to use it for belts and card pockets on wallets and maybe the small stuff

another option is Makers Leather Supply.  you can buy precut straps from him and you can buy W&C and HO veg from him by the foot and in various thicknesess