securing in-skirt rigging without rear jockeys

[Squilchuck]

I’ve made four saddles – one with flat-plate rigging and the others dropped-ring rigging.  I want to make a light-weight trail saddle with in-skirt rigging this winter. It seems pretty straight forward to make an in-skirt rigging with rear jockeys covering the back of the rigging, as Stohlman or posts from Keith Seidel and others on this forum show.  However, I am puzzled about how the integrated rear skirt + rigging is secured to the tree without jockeys.  I have not seen this discussed.  From what I can see in photos there would be screws under the seat jockey, the seat ear, the rear concho, and under the skirt into the cantle, but that seems to be pretty light compared to what you’d get with rigging under a rear jockey.  Any advice on this?  Any detailed instructions (other than Stohlman) or videos on making an in-skirt rigging like this?  --John

[SaddleBags]

Squil,

I had the opportunity to restore an old Porter a few years ago.  Interestingly, the rear rigging was no more that about 22 gauge sheet metal which had been glued and stitched inside the skirt to reinforce the slot that had been cut out to carry the billets.  While this might look okay, I'm certain that there is no strength in this approach.  Certainly no working cowboy would accept such construction.  But then again, the saddle was made for a 12 year-old girl when it was new, so no expectation that she would "cowboy" out of it. 

[Goldshot Ron]

John,

You need to determine if you want a light weight trail saddle, or a tie-down cow working saddle.  This determines the weight of skirting you would use, and the rear design of your rigging.   Many makers use a two-part assembly for the top of the skirt that would cover the top of the tree.  One limiting factor to this design is that the seams wear and break under the stirrup leathers.  I prefer a one layer top piece, but this requires more leather, and a greater chance of making a fitting mistake; but no seams under the leathers.  Your connection points are like you said: the ear tab at the cantle, and the rear conchos.  If fitted and blocked correctly, and the rear of the skirts are laced together, this is very secure.  If you block and use fillers for your skirts, make sure the fillers are lighter leather.  Heavy fillers make the rear of the bars bump around the conchos that some people do not like; but, doesn't affect the performance of the saddle.  Also, adds extra weight.  Tip: determine what the top leather will look like, and how it will fit.  When sewing the top to the bottom, over cut the bottom of the skirts, and trim them when satisfied.  To do this in reverse: fitting top to bottom, is a real pain in the arse.

Ron

[rktaylor]

Squilchuck,

I am far from an expert, but I can share what I have done. This is the second saddle I built and one goal for the saddle was being light weight. I copied a light weight barrel saddle that my wife and daughter liked, but it may be like Al Stohlman said about copying poor designs. That said, my wife loves the saddle, so good for me. The biggest challenge for me was getting the skirts tight against the cantle. I thought it fit really tight until final assembly. It certainly wasn't a 'deal killer' for my second saddle, but I still don't like looking at it. I honestly don't think I saved weight with this method. I think I could build a lighter saddle with rear jockeys. I weighed both saddles so I know the difference. IF I built another like this and weight was an issue, I would go with rear jockeys. 

Randy

[oltoot]

Here are some approaches that proved successful, strength was from skirt attachment to tree

[Goldshot Ron]

Well hell Randy, you should have posted your photo first.  Disregard my comments John.   I can't remember who or where I just heard this, but we tend to lay out our leather on a flat table, cut and prepare it to go on a round and odd shaped object.  John, when laying out your skirts, shape them (damp) on and around your tree.  Then when everything looks good, cut and finish. 

Ron

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Goldshot Ron
Used wrong name for post.

[rktaylor]

Ron,

If memory serves me correct, I looked at one of your saddles posted on this site for inspiration. I couldn't find it with a quick search, but I have pictures of it in my shop.

Squilchuck,

This thread has some information that helped me, though it certainly isn't a detailed tutorial.

Randy