Looking for a 3/4” binder for leather binding tape

[JeannieH]

Hi. I just bought a Zoje cylinder arm binding machine. It was used and the company only had a 1” custom binder they could find for me. I need a 3/4” to sew leather binding on my leather bags. I didn’t go with a custom attachment from atl attachment because for their quote...I could buy a used synchronized binder..which I did. I’m hoping to order one from China when they are back to normal..but I’m the meantime, I thought I’d see if someone on here has one they could sell me. I need a right angle one I think.

[Constabulary]

Do not expect that all 3/4 binder can feed leather tape - a lot depends on the tape thickness and material it self. Most binder are meant for rather thin fabric tapes. Leather tape is critical and depending on the application often requires a custom binder. If the tape you want to use is causing too much drag the tape will either not feed or the stitches become shorter and / or the material you want to bind may stretch and the result looks odd. I guess you need a singe fold binder, right? If you need a double fold binder it would cause even more drag. So the quote from ATL (we do not know how much it was) may sound high compared with the $10 binders on Ebay but they for sure will work trouble free when you sent them samples of you leather tape.

How much was the quote from ATL?

Edited February 12, 2020 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

If it was me (cheap Charlie sometimes and I like trial end error engineering ) I would try a binder like this for leather tape because I think it is not causing much drag due to the smaller body and shell.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Single-Needle-Binders-for-shoes-for-thick-leather-and-rubber-Material/153055486111

But you of course have to modify things because it is not designed for your machine. This of course is just a very "cheap sample".

Another idea - check with LW member UWE - he sells some right angle binders binders that seem to fit your machines and I think he is able to tell you if they are suitable for leather tape or not:

https://uwe.store/products/khf2s-tape-folder?variant=7012296622123

 

EDIT:

regarding UWE and leather tape binders - check this thread:

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Constabulary

[JeannieH]

20 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Do not expect that all 3/4 binder can feed leather tape - a lot depends on the tape thickness and material it self. Most binder are meant for rather thin fabric tapes. Leather tape is critical and depending on the application often requires a custom binder. If the tape you want to use is causing too much drag the tape will either not feed or the stitches become shorter and / or the material you want to bind may stretch and the result looks odd. I guess you need a singe fold binder, right? If you need a double fold binder it would cause even more drag. So the quote from ATL (we do not know how much it was) may sound high compared with the $10 binders on Ebay but they for sure will work trouble free when you sent them samples of you leather tape.

How much was the quote from ATL?

The cheap binder I have allows the material to feed through pretty easily. Originally they said 434 but I did some willing and dealing and got them down to 335. I haven’t sent my material in again yet. I’m trying to find an alternative lol. Someone out there has to have a used custom binder lying around for me to snatch up lol. 

[Constabulary]

Holy crap $434 / $335 is a lot of money.

When you are using thin leather tape its all fine but at a certain tape thickens you may have too much drag so I guess you are making things like handbags, purses and so forth and you are using rather thin leather tape like 1mm thickens or less, right? Then cheap standard binder may work fine. The tape thickness really matters!

When I set up my binder I had problems finding the right one for the tape width I wanted to use. Meanwhile the "cheap binder situation" became better but back then I had to modify my binders to suit my application. I do not have the output that would justify a $300 binder so I tinkered a little bit.

I `m using cheap binders for flat bed machines and modified the bracket - works absolutely perfect. I meanwhile have several of the same type.

This is the type I´m using.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGLE-FOLD-RAW-EDGE-PLAIN-RIGHT-ANGLE-BINDER-SET-S64-fits-JUKI-DDL-8700/122464240878

My Singer 108w20 usually would use a kind of "Pfaff 335 binder" but this is how it looks and I´m very pleased with it:

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

If it helps you I can cut a strip of thin and soft leather (goat I guess) and run it through my binder...

[RockyAussie]

It does work better if the leather has been split or run through a skiver as that tends to make it a little more slippery smooth and less friction going through. I have found that the leather can actually go through and stitch better than a lot of the tapes they make and can accept the inward curves better due to the leather being able to stretch more. JeannieH  has a skiver If I remember so that should not be much of an issue.

[JeannieH]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

If it helps you I can cut a strip of thin and soft leather (goat I guess) and run it through my binder...

That would help me for sure. Yes that is a lot of money! I could be leather instead right! The binder I have now looks like that. I used it on my regular cylinder arm but as I sewed the top of the tape would gradually move to the right and more tape was on the bottom. Here are some pics of the one I have. Now that I’m looking...looks like the problem could have been how the bracket my binder is on isn’t fitting right on my machine.

[JeannieH]

6 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

It does work better if the leather has been split or run through a skiver as that tends to make it a little more slippery smooth and less friction going through. I have found that the leather can actually go through and stitch better than a lot of the tapes they make and can accept the inward curves better due to the leather being able to stretch more. JeannieH  has a skiver If I remember so that should not be much of an issue.

Exactly. That’s why I’m confused as to why my custom one is getting quoted so high. I’m going to try to get mine to work again when my bracket set arrives(I’m missing the long bolts and piece to wind the tape through). Or I will try buying another affordable binder before going for the custom one.

[JeannieH]

3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Holy crap $434 / $335 is a lot of money.

When you are using thin leather tape its all fine but at a certain tape thickens you may have too much drag so I guess you are making things like handbags, purses and so forth and you are using rather thin leather tape like 1mm thickens or less, right? Then cheap standard binder may work fine. The tape thickness really matters!

When I set up my binder I had problems finding the right one for the tape width I wanted to use. Meanwhile the "cheap binder situation" became better but back then I had to modify my binders to suit my application. I do not have the output that would justify a $300 binder so I tinkered a little bit.

I `m using cheap binders for flat bed machines and modified the bracket - works absolutely perfect. I meanwhile have several of the same type.

This is the type I´m using.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGLE-FOLD-RAW-EDGE-PLAIN-RIGHT-ANGLE-BINDER-SET-S64-fits-JUKI-DDL-8700/122464240878

My Singer 108w20 usually would use a kind of "Pfaff 335 binder" but this is how it looks and I´m very pleased with it:

 

Could you send a pic of how you modified the bracket? I need to buy the one you sent me a link to and see if it works. If I can get it on right I don’t see why it wouldn’t. My tape is skived chrome tanned and I will also use thin vachetta soon.

[Constabulary]

sure... wait...

EDIT:

Your binder hat to be closer to the needle...

So it works for me but I´m not really into leather binding so this is just a quick test...

1mm very soft leather, cut to 19mm strips, #18 / 110 round point needle, #69 thread, my binder feet are knurled (for webbing) thats not ideal for soft leather I think.

I will shot a quick video of how it looks when I run this setup with the leather tape and stuff...

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Constabulary

[JeannieH]

19 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

sure... wait...

EDIT:

Your binder hat to be closer to the needle...

So it works for me but I´m not really into leather binding so this is just a quick test...

1mm very soft leather, cut to 19mm strips, #18 / 110 round point needle, #69 thread, my binder feet are knurled (for webbing) thats not ideal for soft leather I think.

I will shot a quick video of how it looks when I run this setup with the leather tape and stuff...

 

That looks great! Looking forward to the video.

[Constabulary]

Keep in mind - I`m not used to run leather tape and my setup is probably not perfect for this task. I probably have top practice and the setup may need some fine tuning. I usually run thicker cotton tape through this binder but this should just give you a rough idea.

Above pics show my 1st try. Video is the 2nd try

I´m loading the video to YT so stay tuned - may take a while...

Edited February 13, 2020 by Constabulary

[JeannieH]

14 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Keep in mind - I`m not used to run leather tape and my setup is probably not perfect for this task. I probably have top practice and the setup may need some fine tuning. I usually run thicker cotton tape through this binder but this should just give you a rough idea.

Above pics show my 1st try. Video is the 2nd try

I´m loading the video to YT so stay tuned - may take a while...

Ok! 

[Constabulary]

Some close ups - the larger piece with white thread on bottom side is the 2nd try. The 1st try looks a bit better IMO so the problem sits in front of the machine 

And the video:

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Constabulary

[JeannieH]

5 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Some close ups - the larger piece with white thread on bottom side is the 2nd try. The 1st try looks a bit better IMO so the problem sits in front of the machine 

And the video:

 

 

Lol yes I’ve found that the problem more times than not is the human! That was very helpful. The binder will be here by Wednesday. So I’m going to try it out and hope it works for me. I rather waste 20 dollars to see if I can save 334 lol!

[Constabulary]

16 minutes ago, JeannieH said:

I rather waste 20 dollars to see if I can save 334 lol!

That exactly was my point when I started tinkering with these binders... I tried em - they worked and I´m happy with em. As I said, I meanwhile have a few "el cheapo binders" and all work fine but have to be fine tuned / well positioned in relation to the feed dog and needle when I change them. But yet I cannot complain. None cost more than ~20-25 bucks or so.

Now I even know I can do binding with leather tape - I learned something today

Good luck with your work and let us see some results when your binder has arrive and is set up

Edited February 13, 2020 by Constabulary

[JeannieH]

7 hours ago, Constabulary said:

That exactly was my point when I started tinkering with these binders... I tried em - they worked and I´m happy with em. As I said, I meanwhile have a few "el cheapo binders" and all work fine but have to be fine tuned / well positioned in relation to the feed dog and needle when I change them. But yet I cannot complain. None cost more than ~20-25 bucks or so.

Now I even know I can do binding with leather tape - I learned something today

Good luck with your work and let us see some results when your binder has arrive and is set up

I did it! Phew! I will just send the binder I ordered back when I get it! I love saving money lol!

 

[Constabulary]

ha - even better - great that it works. However I would try to bring the binder closer to the needle and install the correct foot set (the inner foot is too long) otherwise you may have issues with making turns / binding curved pieces. Check my pictures - my binder is very close to the needle - guess why your feed dog is so short and the throat plate has the cutout.

[JeannieH]

I know!  Ok I will make those changes. I will probably keep the other one I ordered as well. It may allow me to get things set up better and closer. I will see if I can reach out to a distributor of this brand or look in the parts manual for compatible feet. Thanks!

[Constabulary]

Your current foot set looks like the Singer type so this set here should work, it has a smooth bottom:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGER-111W-211W-WALKING-FOOT-SEWING-MACHINE-SMOOTH-BOTTOM-BINDER-FOOT-SET/401174055700

But I do not know your machine so check with the seller first I´d say. Or check with the dealer you bought the machine from.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Constabulary

[JeannieH]

9 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Your current foot set looks like the Singer type so this set here should work, it has a smooth bottom:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGER-111W-211W-WALKING-FOOT-SEWING-MACHINE-SMOOTH-BOTTOM-BINDER-FOOT-SET/401174055700

But I do not know your machine so check with the seller first I´d say. Or check with the dealer you bought the machine from.

Ok I will call the place I bought it from tomorrow and see if he can find out what feet will work. I put my knurled binder inner foot on it(in the video) from my consew 227r2. It went on fine. Maybe those parts will work? I will test out some more feet from my other machine.

[Constabulary]

when you can use feet from your 227 then they are Singer type as used on singer 111, 153, 211, Juki 562 &563, Consew 226 / 227, Seiko Cw-8 and many more machines. Thats good - they are easy to find and often relatively cheap.

[JeannieH]

2 hours ago, Constabulary said:

when you can use feet from your 227 then they are Singer type as used on singer 111, 153, 211, Juki 562 &563, Consew 226 / 227, Seiko Cw-8 and many more machines. Thats good - they are easy to find and often relatively cheap.

Ok thats good to hear!

[JeannieH]

To those interested, I made a new bracket for my cheap binder to work with my machine from some copper sheet and a metal hole punch. It’s far from pretty but it works!