Prepping a saddle tree

[DirtyDusty]

I just got my tree in.  It’s a HF rawhide covered, broadus wade with mule bars. First thing I noticed is when I un boxed it, it is stapled instead of tacked. Several of the staples are sitting proud and a couple are bent over, like the staple gun malfunctioned. Should I just tap them in the rest of the way?  Or will this this cause other issues?

[EdOdgers]

Do you mean that the tree maker used staples to hold the rawhide down inside the cantle dish and other concave areas where it would pull away when drying?  If so, you could pound them down flush.  I'd also pull the staples that are bent over.  I presume that the rawhide seams are sewn together with rawhide lace and not stapled, right?   Sure hope so.  You are right that most (all that I've seen) tree makers use small ring shank nails to hold down the rawhide in the areas described. 

Ideally, your tree should be fairly smooth.  Significant bumps can telegraph through the applied leather.  Depending on the location, that may or may not be a problem.  Proper rawhide application to a tree includes a slow drying process with daily pounding down of the seams and bumps to ensure the cured rawhide is smooth and skintight to the tree.  I'm suspicious that if they left proud and bent staples that the tree may have other issues???

Before you start construction, now would be an ideal time to check the fit of the tree on your mules.  You can really see the fit in ways you can't with a finished saddle.  Check fit first without any pad and then with a moderately thick pad to simulate the final fit.  The fit won't change in terms of  even contact but the front of the tree will rise with the pad, giving you a better assessment of wither clearance and help determine  where the tree is level with the animal.  Knowing where the tree is level is important to determine the cut of you skirts/jockeys, rigging location/alignment, as well as the construction of your ground seat (pocket location and rise).  Make sure the tree is positioned properly on the back with the bar tip just behind the shoulder blade.  On good-backed horses and mules a proper fitting tree will fall right into place there.  On animals that lack withers there won't be a real definitive place where it wants to fit in.  Those are the mules that will need a breeching and breast collar.

[DirtyDusty]

This is what I was talking about. Looks like some staples had already popped out.  There are some gaps between the raw hide and wood, in the dishes outbarea of the seat. Is this normal?  Will it cause issues with the finished seat?  It a Hadlock Fox tree.  They had several mule trees without having to do a custom order. 

As far as fit, the bars fit pretty good everywhere except the very back.  Seems like the bars lift off the back about 3” from the tip.  

I was under the impression that their trees where made in the USA, but the box it came in said made in Mexico. 

[EdOdgers]

DirtyDusty,

The rawhide work shown in your picture is definitely not normal, at least not for what I consider to be a well made tree.  Below are a couple of photos of trees in my shop illustrating how the dish of the cantle is commonly secured.  The trees are from two different, first rate makers.

Looking at the above photo of your tree, It appears that the rawhide is bubbled up in a few places within the dish of the cantle.  Needless to say, the stapling job was inadequate, even if staples are considered appropriate, which I don't.  I presume that the bubbled up spots can be pushed down and pop back up, right?  If so,  and if you plan to use this tree, I think you will need to nail these areas down tight to the cantle.  I suggest using small ring shank nails of about 3/4" to 1" length and a head of about 3/16" diameter.  If you have a lot of flattening to do or if the nails are cracking the rawhide, you should rehydrate and soften the rawhide.  To do this you will need to lightly sand off the protective varnish and place a wet rag (wring it out well) on the area to be flattened for a few hours to overnight.  Before deciding if you should hydrate the rawhide,  try a nail or two and see how well it works without wetting. 

However you do it, it will be important to have the dish area of the cantle secure and tight against the wood.  During installation of the groundseat you will be gluing leather into the dish of the cantle and then sculpting it to the desired shape.  If the bubbles are left in the rawhide there won't be a solid, consistent base under the leather which will make carving the groundseat difficult and may leave a hollow or spongy spot in the finished seat.

[DirtyDusty]

If I do end up rehydrating it, what type of varnish should be used, that won’t react with the barge cement?

[EdOdgers]

You won't need to re-varnish but do allow the rawhide to completely dry before applying glue.  Also, only rehydrate the area that needs to be nailed down.

Varnish of some sort is applied to rawhide covered trees to stabilize them after drying and to prevent the trees from absorbing moisture.  A layer of barge cement should also act as a moisture barrier.  To maximize adhesion, most saddle makers lightly sand where glue is to be applied.  There is debate about the usefulness of sanding to improve glue adhesion but the point I'm making is that it is commonly done and, provided the sanded surface is coated with barge, it won't be a problem.

Since I mentioned preparing glue surfaces by sanding, which I do, I should add a warning to never sand or roughen the rawhide so deeply that the rawhide surface is scored.  This is especially important for the bars in the vicinity of the stirrup leather slots, an area of high stress and potential failure.

[DirtyDusty]

1 hour ago, EdOdgers said:

You won't need to re-varnish but do allow the rawhide to completely dry before applying glue.  Also, only rehydrate the area that needs to be nailed down.

Varnish of some sort is applied to rawhide covered trees to stabilize them after drying and to prevent the trees from absorbing moisture.  A layer of barge cement should also act as a moisture barrier.  To maximize adhesion, most saddle makers lightly sand where glue is to be applied.  There is debate about the usefulness of sanding to improve glue adhesion but the point I'm making is that it is commonly done and, provided the sanded surface is coated with barge, it won't be a problem.

Since I mentioned preparing glue surfaces by sanding, which I do, I should add a warning to never sand or roughen the rawhide so deeply that the rawhide surface is scored.  This is especially important for the bars in the vicinity of the stirrup leather slots, an area of high stress and potential failure.

Thanks for taking time to answer all of my questions. I debated about waiting for a custom tree to be made vs a production one. I knew there would be some issues, just not sure which is a no-go, vs something that can be worked around. 

I came out to the shop today and started really inspecting the tree.  I set it on my table saw, which has a precision ground surface. With it setting flat, I get a slight rock from one corner to the next. Can’t tell if it’s in the fron or back, but I get about 1/8” come off the table at opposite corners. Is this enough to  render the tree unusable?

next I stood measured from outside of bar to outside of the other bar, used a square to transfer the center to the top of cantle and did the front the same way, but transferred the center mark to the front of the gullet. The back lines up center of the cantle.  The front mark, if carried up to the top of the horn, is about .25” offset of center. 

If I stand the tree up on the cantle and use a square to measure from the back bar tips to the horn, I am square to the center of the horn, but .25” out of square to the center of the gullet. 

Stirrup slots are exactly even with each other either, and go straight down instead of having the front groove angled forward. 

Am I being too picky about things or is this tree not useable?

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

The staples alone would be enough to make me send it back.  Is it sewed with rawhide lace, or nylon thread?  Either way, there are so many hours and so many $$$ worth of material in a handmade saddle, why waste the resources on a poor tree?  There are many better ones out there.

Edited March 30, 2020 by BigSiouxSaddlery

[EdOdgers]

I didn't want to come right out and say it but I agree with BigSioux.  Your saddle can never be any better than the tree.  That and the fact that I'm going to spend up to 100 hours to finish a saddle, compels me to use the best trees I can.  That said, I don't know your skill level, expectations, budget, etc. so it's your call.

The information about the symmetry of the tree isn't conclusive to determine if it needs to be rejected from that standpoint.  The 1/8" of rocking is about as much as I would accept, given that variations in the thickness of rawhide could cause nearly that much.  As far as the square and center measurements you gave, I don't think your methods are going to accurately conclude that the tree is or is not square.  I don't recommend establishing center-line and reference points by standing the tree on either end.  Because the distance between the bar tips is so short (about 1/3) compared to the length of the tree, the slightest variation at the bar tip will throw the tree out of vertical in an exaggerated way.  The tree maker might have sanded one bar tip a bit more or maybe the rawhide thickness as it is gathered and folded across the edge is varied.  Either or both of these could make an otherwise good tree appear to be off by a fair bit.   I think there are better, more accurate ways to evaluate and lay out a tree that doesn't rely on standing it on end.  It's pretty difficult to describe in writing how to lay out a tree but I start with the tree laying on a flat surface (I use a piece of thick plat glass 24" X 24") then have two hardwood 3/4" X 3/4" X 24" sticks flanking the bars on each side.  With two machinist's or tri-squares, one on each side and a steel ruler between, I establish center-line at the cantle, horn cap, fork.  I place tape across the bar-gap and mark the center-line behind the cantle and at the stirrup leathers.   At this point I use a laser to mark symmetrical locations for rigging and stirrup slots.   Before the laser I used a large dividers and a carpenters square (just as accurate just slower).  You might get the idea.  If not, I'll take a few photos with the next tree I lay out.