Leather thickness for swells

[DirtyDusty]

If you are using 13-15oz leather fir a saddle.  Do you use full thickness skirting for the swells and the back of the cantle?  I have read the Stohlman book and the Dusty Johnson book, but don’t remember them saying anything about s thinner leather for theses parts. 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

Using 13/15 for the swells will make you hate covering swells.  That is one of the problems with every written saddle making publication I've ever seen: they don't address using different weights for different parts of the saddle in an effort to reduce weight and make the job easier, especially for a beginning saddle maker.  Not every saddle part needs to be 1/4" thick.  I will order the lightest weight skirting available, along with heavier sides, when ordering skirting.  I might even order some split down to a lighter weight yet, if I know I have an order for a saddle where keeping the weight down is a primary concern.  One of the most successful saddle makers of all time told me he used 6/7 oz Mexican shoulders for his swell covers.  While I personally wouldn't do that, using a lighter weight of leather will make the process easier. 

Another important consideration is the side itself that you choose for the swell cover.  Not every side yields a swell cover.  Some sides all but mark it out for you.  I like to take mine from the center upper belly, with firmer leather to the front of the pattern, softer leather to the back, and if there is a difference side to side, firmer leather to the side the rope will be carried on.

[DirtyDusty]

On 6/13/2020 at 8:07 AM, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

Using 13/15 for the swells will make you hate covering swells.  That is one of the problems with every written saddle making publication I've ever seen: they don't address using different weights for different parts of the saddle in an effort to reduce weight and make the job easier, especially for a beginning saddle maker.  Not every saddle part needs to be 1/4" thick.  I will order the lightest weight skirting available, along with heavier sides, when ordering skirting.  I might even order some split down to a lighter weight yet, if I know I have an order for a saddle where keeping the weight down is a primary concern.  One of the most successful saddle makers of all time told me he used 6/7 oz Mexican shoulders for his swell covers.  While I personally wouldn't do that, using a lighter weight of leather will make the process easier. 

Another important consideration is the side itself that you choose for the swell cover.  Not every side yields a swell cover.  Some sides all but mark it out for you.  I like to take mine from the center upper belly, with firmer leather to the front of the pattern, softer leather to the back, and if there is a difference side to side, firmer leather to the side the rope will be carried on.

What would you suggest as an optimum weight?  I would assume the back of the cantles could work with a lighter weight too. 

[Ken Nelson]

I use 13-15 for the swell cover on nearly all saddles I make.  If someone wants a lighter  leather in all of their saddle, I use that weight on the swell cover.  I have replaced   a number of swell covers on fairly new saddles because they were too light of leather when built.   Of course if you are building for the weekend trade you don't have to worry about your saddle standing up to constant hard use. Same on the cantle back.  A 13-15 cantle back is no more difficult to pepare and install if cut from the proper part of the hide than a 11-13 oz one. A cantle back is just there,  it really doesnt get much wear if any at all and does not need strength. BTW 95%+ of my work is building new saddles and I work 6 days a week.   I have built a few.

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

6 hours ago, DirtyDusty said:

What would you suggest as an optimum weight?  I would assume the back of the cantles could work with a lighter weight too. 

I'll use as light as a 7/8 on barrel or cutters, or saddles that won't get roped on.  Otherwise, I feel 11oz is heavy enough.  Quality over quantity.  The days of everyone wanting a 60lb saddle because "that means it's a good one" are over.  I build for some guys that ride every day, I build for women that ride once or twice a week.  You cut weight by trimming ounces, and one way to do that is by using lighter weight leather where heavy leather simply isn't needed.  Cantle backs can be down to 9/10 oz.  

There's more than one way to skin a cat.  I've been thirty years in business in the same township, I'm turning work away because I can't get to it in a reasonable amount of time, and I'd say I'm doing something right.  I'm not going to look down on my customers because some of them are "weekend riders". They help pay my bills too.  Some people need to tear others down to feel better about themselves.

[Ken Nelson]

I have never built a saddle that weighed 60 pounds in my life.   It does depend on where and how a saddle is going to be used. Believe me an 11 oz fork cover will not hold up for a long time in the mesquite country of West and South Texas.  A lot of people don't realize how much abuse a saddle takes on the ranches in the southwest, Red Desert,  and Great Basin. " Got my saddles in service in all them areas.   Believe me, I don't look down on the weekend, trail rider, or hobby horse person at all. They are an important part of the horse industry.   I do feel that everybody needs to realize where they are at and what their clientele is, and if you are wanting to learn to build saddles, learn to build from someone that  understands building for your clientele.

There is a world of difference between being employed as a cowboy on a ranch running over 500 sections and a ranch hand on a "ranch" covering 2 to 10 sections.   And the demands on their equipment is a reflection of the area they are in and the work they do.  The first time I had a pair of batwing chaps out of South Texas come in to have a pocket put on them,  I could not believe how heavy they were.   But they have to turn some nasty brush down there.   The heaviest rawhide taps available are not a fashion statement, in some places.

 

 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

4 hours ago, Ken Nelson said:

  Believe me, I don't look down on the weekend, trail rider, or hobby horse person at all.

Well you could have fooled me because I've seen those exact same remarks many times before.

It is my understanding that there are no custom makers to learn from in the OP's area.  It is also my understanding that he has the Stohlman books and another book that I consider less helpful.  Neither of those go into much (any?) detail of using different weights of leather to reduce weight.  I still do not see the need for super heavy leather where and if it's not needed.  A saddle damn sure can weigh 60lb completely rigged with super heavy duty taps, flank, breastcollar, etc if overbuilt in the first place.  I've had those kind through the shop, and eventually, they need repair too and it isn't because they wore through on the swell cover.  Different area, different issues. I won't take issue with having to build to one's clientele.  I've just seen a lot of really poor first (and 2nd, and 3rd and 10th) attempts at swell covers and some of that could be alleviated by not using 13/15oz leather for that part, ESPECIALLY if welts are needed, in addition to a whole lot of helpful instruction.  

 

 

[Goldshot Ron]

I just have to chime in...Ken, you almost offended me.  If I had to rely on real cow working horsemen (and horsegals), I'd never have work.  They use grandpa's saddle: ripped, torn, and held together with baling twine, shoestrings, and super glue.  One guy had a set of bulldog taps with a baseball size hole in the toe from the brush.  He wondered if I could glue some scrap leather to cover the hole.  Anyway, Dirty Dusty,  you can cover the swell with rawhide if that is the look you want.  I agree with Sioux, a lighter thickness will work easier.  However, if you are going to stamp it, practice on the gauge leather that will work best for you.  One last thing, if I recall, Stohlman lines his cantle backs, then covers it.  I don't think this is necessary if using a heavier leather, but not too fleshy (belly area that may be too fleshy) because the glue won't stick well.

Good Luck