Discussing Carnauba wax, Beeswax, or Gum Tragacanth as top coat

[brainmonster]

I was thinking about trying a "natural" top coat to seal in dye. I have Tandy Satin Sheen which is an acrylic based top coat. I've heard that Gum Tragacanth can actually be used as a top coat. I was wondering how well this works or if this needs to be re-applied.

Carnauba cream seems like it can be worked similarly. Actually, car detailers use carnauba wax often as a wax instead of synthetic waxes. It's known for a better more natural shine than synthetic wax. However it needs to be reapplied more often, sometimes like every 2-4 weeks.

I'm wondering if it's the same with leather, which would make sense. Acrylic seems like it would be the longest lasting. I was thinking about finishing with beeswax as well but it seems like this might lead to an overly greasy feel to the leather.

I looked up the ingredients for Tandy "Gum Tragacanth". Actually it contains Xanthum Gum, which is not Tragacanth but Xanthum gum is a replacement for it which is produced by fermenting bacteria instead of extracting it from a plant. Doesn't make much difference to me, but Xanthum gum can easily be obtained in powdered form at a baking goods store and I'll probably use that for burnishing and try it as a top coat. They probably use Xanthum Gum instead of Gum Tragacanth because it's cheaper than the exotic Tragacanth plant, but probably no difference.

It seems like a lot of "wax" finishes actually use a mix of Beeswax, Carnauba Wax, and some kind of oil to make the consistency easier to apply. I was thinking of making my own if anyone has a recipe. I can get some Hawaiian beeswax locally, and was thinking of mixing it with a cheap castor oil, wondering if that would work as a finish.

 

[Alaisiagae]

I don't know if a wax will act sufficiently to lock in the dye. My understanding (and it may be flawed) was that the acrylic solutions chemically react with the dye pigment molecules... I wish I knew more about why certain substances work to seal the dye and others don't.

You may want to go with an animal-based oil, like pure neatsfoot oil, rather than a veggie oil like castor oil. I don't know the exact science, but I know enough that different oils have different legnths of carbon chains, and different saturation of those chains. That's why some oils are "lighter" than others. I think an animal-based oil would make sense, since leather is an animal-based product, but it's up to you.

In another thread, Fredk described a recipe with beeswax, carnuba wax, and neatsfoot oil: 

 

[johnv474]

Of the options mentioned, carnauba cream is probably the best.  Tragacanth is not particularly resilient and can wash off.  Beeswax is good but can be hard to apply.  Carnauba (which is the hardest of the natural waxes, IIRC) polishes up nice without being as sticky as beeswax can be.  However, carnauba by itself is hard and brittle, so it has to be mixed with other stuff.

 

If you want a basic finish, you can also buy paraffin wax in the canning section of the supermarket.  You can melt it to mix with beeswax if you like.

 

Or, you can buy shoe polish, perhaps neutral.  Most of them contain a solvent that evaporates away but lets the wax mix and carries it into the leather.  My personal favorite brand is Lincoln.

[ScottWolf]

To answer you question, yes it can be used. I use an all natural ingredient conditioner that I make that uses beeswax, carnauba along with other natural ingredients as a finish after I dye. It works and I like the results, as it kills two birds with one stone in my case , as it seals and conditions. However, it takes more time and applications than say using resolene one time and being done.

In my recipe, I use the carnauba in small quantities to harden up the end product to a firm shoe polish consistency. Otherwise without it, its more like a body butter in its firmness. If you're not opposed to a lot of hand rubbing/polishing and a longer time to seal/finish the project, its a viable option to make your own like I do. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by ScottWolf

[maxdaddy]

16 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

it kills two birds with one stone in my case , as it seals and conditions.

Scott... that's very interesting. If it's not a trade secret, which of the ingredients acts as a sealant? I'm going to try my hand at making some beeswax-based conditioner and would like to experiment with the sealant idea as well. Thanks

[ScottWolf]

25 minutes ago, maxdaddy said:

Scott... that's very interesting. If it's not a trade secret, which of the ingredients acts as a sealant? I'm going to try my hand at making some beeswax-based conditioner and would like to experiment with the sealant idea as well. Thanks

As far as I know its the beeswax and carnauba wax that do the heavy lifting. The oils in the mix are for the leather conditioning. It's not a secret, I never understood why people act like its some kind of proprietary info on how they make  conditioner. It's not like most/any of them are trying to sell it to make a living or anything. Plus its not rocket science. If one looks at most commercial products Material Safety Data Sheets ( MSDS), you can find out what the ingredients are and sometimes even the % of each. A little bit of tinkering and one can figure out what the ratios are. I've been meaning to post my conditioner recipe with actual measurements of each ingredient used here, but haven't gotten around to it yet.