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6 hours ago, Atalanta said:

Since I have to make a batch of other beeswax blends, I thought I'd concoct some of this and try it instead of the Satin Sheen. The piece I want to use it on has been dyed with Eco Flo waterstain. Will this mesh with the stain or will it make the stain more likely to rub off? I need to condition these pieces because the staining has made them really really stiff (5 applications of stain with 12+ hours drying in between to get even close to the color I want).

 

 

It shouldn't cause it to rub off, as I often use this as a sealer to items I have dyed, but using Fiebings/Angelus dyes. Just be sure to wipe down/buff the stained pieces with a soft rag/t-shirt to remove excess stain as much as possible, then apply the conditioner. You may get a little rub off/color at first on the rag,  but nothing to be concerned about.

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An update to this post on a slightly different list of ingredients and some results. Since posting the original recipe and variations of ingredients one can use, I've been using the following ingredients with very good results, especially for very dry and or damaged leather items. The idea is to replace some of the ingredients that are lost over time, age, and neglect to basically  re-fatliquor the leather. I've used it on very old and stiff leather as well as normal healthy leather with good results. This also remains true to an all natural ingredient recipe. Ingredients used are: Beeswax, Lanolin, Tallow (beef), vitamin E.

The Tallow I used is derived from 100% pure high end Waygu beef and has a soft buttery consistency and no odor to speak of. The brand I used is from South Chicago packing and is food grade. I use the Vitamin E in the mix, as it is an antioxidant  and retards any of the ingredients used from oxidizing ( some refer to this as going rancid). The Lanolin and Beeswax is self explanatory in its usefulness and in adding stability to the product. 

So I used this recipe to test out the effectiveness of having added the tallow in the mix to see how well it works at fatliquoring already processed/finished leather. Specifically, very stiff and old, dried out leather that had been exposed to the elements as well as sweat.After making it, it resembled my previous picture in this thread where I used lanolin, in its appearance and consistency. Mixture ratios were consistent with the ones I posted in the original post. 

Here is what I have found to date. After having applied it to the very dry and stiff leather and letting it sit a day or two between multiple applications, the leather had softened up and was no longer stiff and could be bent/flexed without the fear of breaking/cracking the leather. On sections where the surface grain had already cracked and was hard, it was now soft to the touch and pliable. The leather also looked healthier and returned to its natural depth of color. The leather was no longer cardboard stiff or brittle and was soft workable leather. I also applied it to still flexible leather as a typical conditioner would be used on a leather item and found that it works just as well at bringing out a vibrant and healthy looking end result. The addition of the tallow as an ingredient, definitely makes a difference in how this conditioner recipe works compared to the others already mentioned in this thread. It may not be a conditioner that you'd use all of the time, but it is ideal to have a tin for those pieces of leather that require more than the usual conditioner ingredients. 

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So I used the recipe I concocted on the bag I made. The repeated dying had made the top carved part quite stiff. I conditioned both the topside and underside repeatedly after dying and before painting. I had to flex it some and its still stiff but more pliable. I buffed the dyed pieces until there wasn't any rub-off and there wasn't really any rub-off when I conditioned. 

dragon bag2.jpg

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Hi, 

Cruising through this thread I am experiencing the cracked leather from a bend in a belt I just put together for the wife.   The leather is a belt blank from Tandy and I skived the bend on the flesh side to about half to make it easier to fold.  After dyeing a couple of coats of Eco-Flo black dye and a couple of coats of resolene it is now cracking.   Did I put too much resolene?  Can I go back and add dye and try to reseal.   Should I have used a conditioner as mentioned in this thread before I tried to bend it?      

I have attached a photo to better explain.  (don't mind the dog -- he's my hangaround) 
I appreciate and value your knowledge and thank you in advance.! 

cracked.jpeg

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23 hours ago, JayEhl said:

Hi, 

Cruising through this thread I am experiencing the cracked leather from a bend in a belt I just put together for the wife.   The leather is a belt blank from Tandy and I skived the bend on the flesh side to about half to make it easier to fold.  After dyeing a couple of coats of Eco-Flo black dye and a couple of coats of resolene it is now cracking.   Did I put too much resolene?  Can I go back and add dye and try to reseal.   Should I have used a conditioner as mentioned in this thread before I tried to bend it?      

I have attached a photo to better explain.  (don't mind the dog -- he's my hangaround) 
I appreciate and value your knowledge and thank you in advance.! 

cracked.jpeg

you need to wet form the bend before applying the finish. 

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Hi,  thanks @chuck123wapati    that makes sense.  I wet form, let it dry then add dye and finish?  

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Just an update to this thread. I've continued to try different combinations of ingredients using the a fore mentioned ratios. Ingredients such as avocado oil, sunflower oil, Palm oil, etc. I've found that some of the combinations have different affects on the leather, be it the shine, color or suppleness that it produces. So even if you've found a combination of ingredients that works for you, try experimenting with the amounts of a given ingredient to start, and see if it improves the performance of your conditioner. I now have a series of differing conditioners that I use in steps for a given piece of leather and not just one by itself. This has proven helpful in bringing back very dry or poorly cared for pieces in stages.

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Good evening,
Could someone, please advise me on the ratio of the ingredients in the conditioner? I would like to try making a conditioner with beef tallow, lanolin and beeswax. Does anyone have verified ratios of these ingredients, which really works, please? I would also like to put citronella in there against bacteria and fungi. Lastly, I want to put vitamin E in there against oxidation, I just don't know how many drops of essential oil and vitamin E. I can put in there to have the proper effect. Thank you very much for the answers.
Marek

Edited by CernunnosLeather

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4 hours ago, CernunnosLeather said:

Good evening,
Could someone, please advise me on the ratio of the ingredients in the conditioner? I would like to try making a conditioner with beef tallow, lanolin and beeswax. Does anyone have verified ratios of these ingredients, which really works, please? I would also like to put citronella in there against bacteria and fungi. Lastly, I want to put vitamin E in there against oxidation, I just don't know how many drops of essential oil and vitamin E. I can put in there to have the proper effect. Thank you very much for the answers.
Marek

From my initial post, here are the general ratios to start with:

Quote

It’s a simple recipe, mix the three ingredients at a ratio of 1:1:2 (beeswax, cocoa butter, and liquid oil) , this ratio gives the balm a slightly softer texture as opposed to being a very solid bar. This is still a balm, though; if you want more of a cream, use a 1:1:3 ratio. If you add the two optional ingredients you are adding more conditioner( lanolin) and a hardener (Carnauba wax) that result in a more solid final product. The ratio with the other two ingredients would be: 1:1:2: .5: .25  You can increase the Lanolin from .5 to 1 if you choose but it does increase the overall cost. If you need a harder product, increase the carnauba wax, as too much beeswax can result in a tacky feel to the product.

There is no way to tell you specifically how many drops of an ingredient or how much vitamin E, etc to put in there. You can put in as much or as little as you want to get the desired end product. The thing you do need to keep in mind is that the more "oils" you add to the recipe, the softer the end product is going to be. So it will go from a solid/balm to a cream unless you increase the ingredients that give it it's firmness, like beeswax.Carnauba,etc, proportionality as you add more ingredients that are oils. So if you increase the number of parts of oils by say 50%, you need to increase the amount of beeswax by at least 50% or more depending on what you want the end product to be (solid/soft/balm) just for starters and see what it produces in a small batch. if it comes out the way you want it, make it in a larger batch, using the newly adjusted ratios. 

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11 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Z mého úvodního příspěvku zde jsou obecné poměry pro začátek:

Neexistuje žádný způsob, jak konkrétně říci, kolik kapek složky nebo kolik vitamínu E atd. tam dát. Můžete vložit tolik nebo tak málo, kolik chcete, abyste získali požadovaný konečný produkt. Věc, kterou musíte mít na paměti, je, že čím více „olejů“ do receptu přidáte, tím měkčí bude konečný produkt. Takže to půjde z tuhého/balzámu na krém, pokud nezvýšíte přísady, které mu dodávají pevnost, jako je včelí vosk. Karnauba atd., proporcionalita, když přidáte více přísad, které jsou oleje. Pokud tedy zvýšíte počet dílů olejů řekněme o 50 %, musíte zvýšit množství včelího vosku alespoň o 50 % nebo více v závislosti na tom, jaký chcete mít konečný produkt (tuhý/měkký/balzám) jen pro začátek a uvidíte, co produkuje v malé dávce. pokud to vyjde tak, jak chcete, udělejte to ve větší dávce, 

Thank you so much for your response. I'll test the ratios and let you know. I still need to get some quality tallow, but that won't be a problem. I will try to figure out how much vitamin E and citronella to give to get the right effect and it's not wasted because of the low concentration.
 

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10 hours ago, CernunnosLeather said:

Thank you so much for your response. I'll test the ratios and let you know. I still need to get some quality tallow, but that won't be a problem. I will try to figure out how much vitamin E and citronella to give to get the right effect and it's not wasted because of the low concentration.
 

If you do a small test batch in a 2 or 4 oz tin and mix in the ingredients,you will get a visual reference as to how much of either Vitamin E or citronella is intermixed with the other ingredients. You dont need a lot of either for it to be effective when the ratio you are working against is 1 part beeswax. By starting at .5 for each just as a test, which is half of the ratio you are working against, you will get a good idea as to whether it is enough or too much. If it is too much you will end up with a final product that is more like a cream and or so soft that it will never be firm/hard . I think you are over thinking this, as it's not exact, as your ingredients might differ from mine in how they interact with one another and or from batch to batch. This can become more apparent if you decide to add essential oils in it for smell, as 5 drops might be enough in one batch to get the desired smell and when you open a new/different bottle of essential oil, 5 drops may not be enough. To put this in perspective, look at a commercially available products MSDS and you will see a percentage of the ingredients. Very often you will see ingredients like you listed and more, and they will typically say +/- 5 percent, sometime +/- 10% but typically for only one of those ingredients. Meaning very little  of those ingredients is actually used in the make up of that product. In most cases of liquid conditioners its typical to see 50-80% is water, followed by a small percentage of chemical stabilizers/preservatives and or emulsifiers and then lower percentages of the actual conditioning ingredient(s).

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13 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

If you do a small test batch in a 2 or 4 oz tin and mix in the ingredients,you will get a visual reference as to how much of either Vitamin E or citronella is intermixed with the other ingredients. You dont need a lot of either for it to be effective when the ratio you are working against is 1 part beeswax. By starting at .5 for each just as a test, which is half of the ratio you are working against, you will get a good idea as to whether it is enough or too much. If it is too much you will end up with a final product that is more like a cream and or so soft that it will never be firm/hard . I think you are over thinking this, as it's not exact, as your ingredients might differ from mine in how they interact with one another and or from batch to batch. This can become more apparent if you decide to add essential oils in it for smell, as 5 drops might be enough in one batch to get the desired smell and when you open a new/different bottle of essential oil, 5 drops may not be enough. To put this in perspective, look at a commercially available products MSDS and you will see a percentage of the ingredients. Very often you will see ingredients like you listed and more, and they will typically say +/- 5 percent, sometime +/- 10% but typically for only one of those ingredients. Meaning very little  of those ingredients is actually used in the make up of that product. In most cases of liquid conditioners its typical to see 50-80% is water, followed by a small percentage of chemical stabilizers/preservatives and or emulsifiers and then lower percentages of the actual conditioning ingredient(s).

Thank you and I'll take your advice. The raw materials should come next week. Then I'll write how it turned out.

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Scott,

Thanks for the recipes and all the ideas here, can't wait to experiment!

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This is a great post. I've been making a simple balm with beeswax, olive oil and sometimes coconut oil. It works but I don't like how dark my saddles get. I've been playing around with variations and looking at different msds for ideas. Mineral Oil seems to keep the leather lighter but how about tallow? I see that balm manufacturers seem to use water in thier recipes. Any thoughts on that?

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12 hours ago, Adouthit said:

This is a great post. I've been making a simple balm with beeswax, olive oil and sometimes coconut oil. It works but I don't like how dark my saddles get. I've been playing around with variations and looking at different msds for ideas. Mineral Oil seems to keep the leather lighter but how about tallow? I see that balm manufacturers seem to use water in thier recipes. Any thoughts on that?

Glad to hear this post helped you out. Olive and coconut oil will darken leather significantly. Its great for old dark colored pieces, as it brings it back nicely. But if you put it on a beige/camel or veg tan piece of leather, it darkens it a lot. If you use the ingredients I listed in the recipe post, you'll find that it doesnt darken the piece too much. Any conditioner will initially darken a piece but after its absorbed in the color usually lightens up.

Tallow is great for dry pieces or to just to keep a soft supple piece going. The batch I made using tallow has become my go to tin for general conditioning. The batch I made with mineral oil in it is more of a finishing product, as the mineral oil adds a bit of sheen and makes the leather pop.

I only see water being used in liquid and or lotion types of conditioner, such as Lexol as an example. 80% is water, 5-10% is neatsfoot oil and the rest is emulsifiers,preservatives and or stabilizers. If you want a semi solid balm, there is no need to add water, as then you'd need to add an emulsifier to keep the water and your oils from separating.

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Thank you! I'll have to go back and read your initial post again. I tried the tallow and liked it. I've been trying to rehab old saddles and tack so making my own is nice. Getting some like back into some pieces is a real challenge.

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