Professional moccasin makers: how do they do it?

[ScottEnglish]

Hi.

Looking online at photos of professionally made moccasins the soles on quite a few pairs resemble leather that has been moulded. Here is a link to an example: https://img0.etsystatic.com/065/0/5624269/il_fullxfull.786041240_he1e.jpg

Does anyone know how this is achieved?

Thanks.

Scott

 

[fredk]

That would be no big problem. Its an ancient shoe making technique

1. get a wood last exactly to the foot size required but deeper than a foot

2. cut a piece of leather much bigger than needed

3. soak leather in warm water

4. put leather over the wood last, pull it around the last and tack it into place

5. Allow leather to dry

6. cut leather with a margin allowance around the sides for to sew the vamp to

7. sew vamp pieces to sole

[ScottEnglish]

Thanks fredk! Do you think the sole on the pair of mocs in the photo that I have linked to are made this way? I ask as I think the pair pictured are made with bison leather that is chrome tanned.

Scott

[fredk]

The leather looks like veg tan to me, but chrome tan can be moulded if the right amount of heat is applied to it

[ScottEnglish]

Thanks again fredk. Mystery solved! I am grateful for your reply.

Scott

[LatigoAmigo]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

chrome tan can be moulded if the right amount of heat is applied to it

That sounds interesting... how do you think the heat is applied to the sole of this moccasin?

Edited November 16, 2020 by LatigoAmigo

[Aven]

Scott, that looks like a Russell Thula boot, but not quite.  It could be a Dyer, a Arrow or a Quoddy.  But no matter who made it, I think this will give insight into its construction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BKTqfOE2rc

[fredk]

3 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

That sounds interesting... how do you think the heat is applied to the sole of this moccasin?

I have moulded chrome tan by taking a very much larger piece than required, soaking in warm water, tacking over the shape and then speed drying it in a very warm kitchen cooker oven. The leather shrinks and hardens and also takes on the shape its over. Care and experimentation is needed as 1. the leather can shrink too much, 2. it can harden too much, but each of these can be used in their own way. eg. I made some hardened leather 'scales' for a chap who wanted some for Roman type armour

[LatigoAmigo]

26 minutes ago, fredk said:

I have moulded chrome tan by taking a very much larger piece than required, soaking in warm water, tacking over the shape and then speed drying it in a very warm kitchen cooker oven.

That is amazing, I would never have imagined. I don't think my wife would want me to dry wet leather in her oven, however, so I probably won't ever get to try this. Thank you for sharing.

[Aven]

56 minutes ago, fredk said:

I have moulded chrome tan by taking a very much larger piece than required, soaking in warm water, tacking over the shape and then speed drying it in a very warm kitchen cooker oven. The leather shrinks and hardens and also takes on the shape its over. Care and experimentation is needed as 1. the leather can shrink too much, 2. it can harden too much, but each of these can be used in their own way. eg. I made some hardened leather 'scales' for a chap who wanted some for Roman type armour

That doesn't look like their process.  They get it wet in room temp water, last it and let it air dry.  They show it at about 5:45 in the video.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Aven

[fredk]

43 minutes ago, Aven said:

That doesn't look like their process.  They get it wet in room temp water, last it and let it air dry.  They show it at about 5:45 in the video.

That would be for veg tan

My bit you quoted was for chrome tan

[Aven]

I don't think they were using veg tan.  It might have been latigo, but definitely didn't look like veg tan.  It looked waxy and supple, but they did say they use all different kinds of leather.

[ScottEnglish]

Thanks for the link to the video Aven. 

[Latiguy]

The sole of the moccasin in the OP is not molded. That is chrome tan leather that just barely has a soft enough temper to shape without heat or water. A combination of edge skiving and the stitching method "gather" up the material at the upper edge resulting in the 3D shaping of the sole.

[ScottEnglish]

I've noticed Latiguy that you started a topic on thick chrome-tanned leather. I presume you're learning to make moccasins? I find skiving chrome-tanned leather takes an inordinate amount of time compared to vegetable-tanned leather. Chrome-tanned leather seems a tougher material and it also quickly dulls the edge of the knife.

Scott

[Matt S]

9 hours ago, ScottEnglish said:

Chrome-tanned leather seems a tougher material and it also quickly dulls the edge of the knife.

This is my experience also, both with hand tools and machine tools but I don't know about it taking more time. I guess it depends on the nature of the leathers, especially their temper. Soft chrome-tanned leathers are a breeze to skive with a sharp knife, whereas some are positively flinty and suitable only really for machine work.

[ScottEnglish]

Hi Matt.

I have limited experience of chrome-tanned leather but all the sides I have bought have been time consuming to skive. Unlike the undyed vegetable-tanned leather that I've worked with which has been a pleasure to skive.

Scott