LK1 Report post Posted December 16, 2020 Hi all! Sewing and leatherwork newbie here, in need of some quick help, my stitch is loose! My top stitch seems to be leaving big hoops/loops and really loose holding stitch, But the underneath is a decent stitch? I’ve tried the two thread tentioners, lowering the needle position, made sure the bobbin catches and is in the correct position and still to no avail! Somebody please help a guy out! I can provide pics with whatever you guys need, many thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) most important is what machine are you talking about - so yes, please post as many pictures as possible. Also please post pictures of your top thread path. Edited December 16, 2020 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted December 17, 2020 Thanks for the speedy reply @Constabulary! It’s the generic replica “cobbler hand crank sewing machine” from amazon but it’s the exact same green model that’s all over youtube, I’ll send a link to a video a guy had one the exact same as mine. https://youtu.be/JeKI2tjFZ24 ill take some pictures and whatnot soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted December 17, 2020 generic answer my ''green amazon'' cobbler does not like my thread to pass through both thread tensioners. so i only use the tensioner closest to the front of the machine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 21, 2021 On 12/17/2020 at 1:16 PM, Frodo said: generic answer my ''green amazon'' cobbler does not like my thread to pass through both thread tensioners. so i only use the tensioner closest to the front of the machine Interesting take! I’ll definitely have to try this because I’m still having problems, now it’s snapping after the needle making me think it’s the foot being too sharp and ripping the thread or some point being too tight, but I’m almost certain it’s not my tensioners as they’re the loosest they possibly can be! I’ll upload some pictures tomorrow because I’ve spent hours testing today to no avail again! Had this problem for a couple weeks now some days I feel I’ve got it down then I’m back to square one resetting everything to try and get a clean stitch without problems! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squid61 Report post Posted January 21, 2021 I am deeply grateful for this thread. I played with idea of getting one of the green monsters but now there isn't a chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted January 22, 2021 Moved to leather sewing machines Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) OK guys, I am going to try and tell you how to get your machines working go to this link here How To Thread & Set The Timing On Your Chinese Sewing Machine - YouTube if you have questions after seeing this, i can help you, i am not on this forum every day., pm me if it is the needle, put your finger under the machine, roll the crank, the neddle should tap your finger with out cutting you. if you do not feel the needle, it needs to be lowered, if it draws blood it is to long and the needle bar needs to go up Edited January 22, 2021 by Frodo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonInReno Report post Posted January 23, 2021 On 12/16/2020 at 1:19 AM, LK1 said: My top stitch seems to be leaving big hoops/loops and really loose holding stitch, But the underneath is a decent stitch? I have a non-answer that probably won’t solve your problem directly, but will hopefully help get you closer. The patchers are interesting little machines, and when all the issues are sorted out they do make a stitch, but you’ll have to fix a half dozen issues just to barely have a reliable machine. First, throw out the thread that comes with it and order a spool of 92 weight bonded nylon. If you later want to try a thicker thread you can, but this is the easiest of the thicker threads to figure out - rather than pushing the limits right off the bat, get 92 to work first. Second, remove roughness from everything the bobbin thread comes into contact with. Use some 400 grit sandpaper and polish off sharp corners that the thread has to drag across - including the little holes in the hook that the thread gets dragged through. Third, get comfortable with thread tension adjustment. Only use one tensioner - the second is intended for winding bobbins - regardless of how many well intentioned people say to use both don’t do it. If two tensioners were any advantage, every industrial would have two, but they don’t. Make sure your hook has a bobbin thread tension spring - some only have holes and no spring - order a new hook if need be, but you have to have a tension spring. Now adjust the top tension so the knot is centered in the material - normally the bobbin tension is close enough to get you started so just leave the bobbin alone and make adjustments with the top tensioner. Every time you sew check this and make adjustments as needed. Fourth, there’s no getting around the proper clearance between the needle and hook and proper timing. If you’re lucky your machine will make a basic stitch as set at the factory, but there is 1 in 100 chance it’s set correctly. I’ve read two dozen descriptions of how to do this on the patcher forum on FB and most people are well meaning, but they are a little off base so don’t believe the first write up on his. Just keep in mind as the needle is at the very bottom of its stroke, and then rises the thickness of a nickel, the point of the hook should just be inline with the needle about 1/16” up from the eye of the needle. The point of the hook should be as close to the needle as possible without actually touching it. Order new high quality needles - always make your timing and hook clearance adjustments with a new needle. A slightly bent needle is the easiest thing to correct and should be the first thing you do when troubleshooting. Fifth, practice sewing as much as possible to get a feel for the machine and what issues are normal and which are signs something is wrong. It’s not possible to just jump in and start sewing on a project and expect it to turn out right. Good technique isn’t easy, or everyone would be making professional looking items from day one. We all want to help someone who is putting in the time to increase their skills, but it makes me cringe when someone unwraps a patcher and starts complaining the monofilament fishing line included with the machine doesn’t make a good looking stitch and they just ruined a good belt with crooked stitches....oh, and they don’t want to practice. Sixth, every part of the patcher, every bolt, every adjustment, every everything, is likely to cause problems at some time in the future because of the inexpensive nature of the construction, so don’t expect miracles and accept troubleshooting as a necessary skill when running one of these. There are a lot of articles out there describing how to sort out each part to make it more reliable. Like I said, this isn’t really a specific answer to your problem, although your issue is most likely somewhere in those first four points. Fix and eliminate as many small issues as possible and the solution to bigger problems will be much much easier to diagnose. Good luck and let us know what fixed the problem! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 23, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 4:14 AM, Frodo said: OK guys, I am going to try and tell you how to get your machines working go to this link here How To Thread & Set The Timing On Your Chinese Sewing Machine - YouTube if you have questions after seeing this, i can help you, i am not on this forum every day., pm me if it is the needle, put your finger under the machine, roll the crank, the neddle should tap your finger with out cutting you. if you do not feel the needle, it needs to be lowered, if it draws blood it is to long and the needle bar needs to go up So I’ve watched most of his videos to get me to this point and with a few of your guys help! I’m using a thick bonded thread (T70#69 Bonded Nylon)I’ve stopped using the second tensioner and the machine will stitch to a point and won’t snap thread between the crank and tensioner, which is good because sometimes it would so that problems out the way! I’m also cranking the machine fully around and just feeling the tip of the needle (just a light press touch) So that’s all good too, I’m just running into a problem where now if I stitch it’ll go for a while then hit a stop and my thread is breaking under the needle somewhere, it’s catching the bobbin thread fine, so I know the timing and shafts are all correct and in place ( everytime I reset the bobbin etc I’m getting the thread catch perfect) I’ve released the little latch that makes the bobbin tension tight and still no avail, but it’s going further than it has done before! also just ordered some 400 grit to sand down my presser foot and other sharper edging and got some plastidip so I don’t run into the sharp presser foot problem again, Is there anything else you guys can think of? its just like it’s almost shredding the thread or cutting into itself somewhere as I’m sewing so I can never finish up a job cleanly without a thread stressing inside my needle and leaving it with a unthreaded loose thread after some nice tight stitches:( But I’m almost there guys! And again thanks for all the help on the forum it’s much appreciated! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 23, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 4:14 AM, Frodo said: OK guys, I am going to try and tell you how to get your machines working go to this link here How To Thread & Set The Timing On Your Chinese Sewing Machine - YouTube if you have questions after seeing this, i can help you, i am not on this forum every day., pm me if it is the needle, put your finger under the machine, roll the crank, the neddle should tap your finger with out cutting you. if you do not feel the needle, it needs to be lowered, if it draws blood it is to long and the needle bar needs to go up This keeps on happening? As if the thread from the needle is trapping or catching and literally stops the machine from being cranked, What would I do to try and fix this? The thread sticking out the side of the bobbin in just loose thread thats come from the needle not the bobbin, it seems the bobbins thread is fine now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted January 23, 2021 PM SENT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) In your photo showing the bobbin. A couple of things I would check: When the needle picks up the thread through the bobbin cover. Can you pull the bobbin thread from the bobbin easily? Looking at the photo it appears the top thread has been stressed to the breaking point. I suspect the bobbin isn't threaded correctly. Thin thread (V69) should be threaded so it exits through the hole closest to the hook. Make sure the bobbin thread path through the hook assembly is correct. Goes through the bottom hole closest to the hook, under the tension spring and out the top hole closest to the hook. The thread has to enter one hole and exit the corresponding top hole. kgg Edited January 23, 2021 by kgg word error Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted January 23, 2021 LK, Look at 10:40 How To Thread & Set The Timing On Your Chinese Sewing Machine - YouTube in order to set the bobbin hook exactly where you want, loosen the pitman rod nuts and adjust the hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 24, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 4:48 PM, kgg said: In your photo showing the bobbin. A couple of things I would check: When the needle picks up the thread through the bobbin cover. Can you pull the bobbin thread from the bobbin easily? Looking at the photo it appears the top thread has been stressed to the breaking point. I suspect the bobbin isn't threaded correctly. Thin thread (V69) should be threaded so it exits through the hole closest to the hook. Make sure the bobbin thread path through the hook assembly is correct. Goes through the bottom hole closest to the hook, under the tension spring and out the top hole closest to the hook. The thread has to enter one hole and exit the corresponding top hole. kgg So should I change the enter and exit holes? The thread I’m using is T70#69 Bonded Nylon, and I haven’t had the bobbin tension down incase of it being too tight, here’s some pictures of the bobbin line 23 hours ago, Frodo said: LK, Look at 10:40 How To Thread & Set The Timing On Your Chinese Sewing Machine - YouTube in order to set the bobbin hook exactly where you want, loosen the pitman rod nuts and adjust the hook Watching now, thanks so much again @Frodo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 24, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 4:48 PM, kgg said: In your photo showing the bobbin. A couple of things I would check: When the needle picks up the thread through the bobbin cover. Can you pull the bobbin thread from the bobbin easily? Looking at the photo it appears the top thread has been stressed to the breaking point. I suspect the bobbin isn't threaded correctly. Thin thread (V69) should be threaded so it exits through the hole closest to the hook. Make sure the bobbin thread path through the hook assembly is correct. Goes through the bottom hole closest to the hook, under the tension spring and out the top hole closest to the hook. The thread has to enter one hole and exit the corresponding top hole. kgg Also yes I’ve just set up again from scratch after changing the pitman rods, and taking the loop for the bobbin line to come through was easy and just pulled right out?this was using the holes on the right though like the pictures above Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 24, 2021 It’s either this problem or the needle going in and shredding it somewhere down at the bottom, I’ve tried the pitman rods made sure that’s all even and correct, just tried changing the bobbin holes closer to the hook and still nothing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LK1 Report post Posted January 24, 2021 24 minutes ago, LK1 said: It’s either this problem or the needle going in and shredding it somewhere down at the bottom, I’ve tried the pitman rods made sure that’s all even and correct, just tried changing the bobbin holes closer to the hook and still nothing Success!! Ive just had it doing running stitches fast and slow through 3 different types and thickness of leather and material, all without snapping or having any hiccup! I don’t want to get too ahead of myself but since the initial set up I’ve not had it this dialled in until now! All with great thanks to the leatherwork community and especially @Frodo! @kgg And the others that have been willing to help! I’ll be back tomorrow after I’ve started a few projects that have been on hold and let you guys know how the machine and the leatherwork is going! Again it’s much appreciated for all the help guys, I’ll keep this post live for anyone else with similar issues, and hopefully I won’t be back with bad news! Thanks again guys! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted January 25, 2021 the needle MUST go down Then the hook sweeps in front of the hook grabbing the thread on the NEXT revolution when the needle comes up it MUST come up in the corner opposite the hook Also..what needle size and thread size are you using? incorrect needle will cut thread also Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Frodo said: correction. if the top stitch is loose, it is the bobbin tension that needs adjustment if the bottom stitch is loose it is the top thread tension that needs adjustment Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigsasquatch Report post Posted September 21, 2021 On 1/21/2021 at 6:51 PM, Squid61 said: I am deeply grateful for this thread. I played with idea of getting one of the green monsters but now there isn't a chance. I just purchased one of these and while they do come pretty rough, if you take the time to polish and knock down the rough spots it makes for a pretty great little sewing machine. Especially if you're like me and don't have the money to drop 1500 dollars on a dedicated sewing machine. Mainely Acres on YouTube was the channel I found most helpful in getting mine polished up and the timing correct to sew without breaking my thread. The only thing that might present a problem is getting the bearings out of the frame if you was to upgrade those. Mine came with an unsealed bearing that I wanted to change to a sealed bearing. I had to purchase a puller to get the bearing out but that was really the only problem I ran into. The rest was achievable with a little elbow grease and a Dremel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squid61 Report post Posted September 22, 2021 I can appreciate that, for $100 and some change, one can get a machine to stitch leather, somewhat. I can't afford a real leather sewing machine but I'm pretty good at hand stitching and I don't need yet another project that may or may not result in the desired result. Most everything I've read about these tells me they are pain in the butt, endless tinker project. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PastorBob Report post Posted September 22, 2021 I have tried for several years to get mine working to no avail. Sitting off to the side now. Any takers for $75 with shipping included? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
