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Singer 16-41 hook and needle timing help.

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Hello everyone, I have acquired an 1892 Singer 16-41.  I am attempting to time the needle and hook shuttle, but cannot get it to sew. I have installed a new shuttle race and shuttle,  bobbin holder and bobbin.  
 

Having only been able to find adjustment manuals for the Singer 16-141, the needle on the rise should have the shuttle hook 1/16” above the eye of the needle.

My first attempts at timing such an old Singer,  my question is does the needle timing occur at the very bottom of the needle stroke, just starting to rise,,  and does the shuttle get set further past the needle and then swing into the needle scarf, or should the needle be at bottom, and shuttle only having a very limited run into the needle.  
 

thank you all very much.  

 

E7ED14C0-1844-4FD1-8FE4-B5CEC7D6FF21.jpeg

Edited by Restorer

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I have no timing values for the Class 16 but afaik it has a CB hook. And on most (if not all) CB hook machines you usually you bring the needle bar to bottom dead center and from there you rise the needle bar approx 2.5mm (as I said I have no exact values for the Class 16) and an that point the hook tip should be in the center of the needle approx 2mm above the needle eye.

Have to check if I can find a manual or so....

EDIT:

this is an extract from a Singer 31-19 manual but should work for CB hooks Class 16 machines as well

96665097_TimimgCBHook.thumb.jpg.79be47b615a66261710b40bf7d8b73c5.jpg

Edited by Constabulary

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Thank you very much, Constabulary,  that is very helpful,  regards Jack,

 

It is a Singer 16-41.  Must be USA. Manufactured. As I cannot find anything close in 16K. Models,  not sure how it came to Australia, had me stumped for a while as it has no brass model number plate attached.  It is CB.  Central bobbin oscillating,  Alternating presser feet.

The most interesting thing is that the machine wheel is turned  clockwise away from you.

Edited by Restorer

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This may be of interest for you. You machine is not listed but anyway....

https://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade-Literature/Sewing-Machines/NMAHTEX/2753/imagepages/image35.htm

I found an "odd" Singer 16KSV11 approx 1.5 years ago and reworked it. This ways mine (sold it).

Regarding clockwise rotation - well you live in down under  **kidding**  ;)

I think you can reverse the feed direction by adjusting the feed cam on the top shaft. I once did that on a friends Dürkopp machine but not on a class 16 but I guess its similar. Here again is an extract from a Class 31 manual I think its the same as on the Class 16. But be careful with this you may have a binding at one point. I´d put a mark on the feed cam and the shaft before making adjustments so you always can go back to the original setting. Hope it helps.
 

feed dog timing drop feed machine.jpg

Edited by Constabulary

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16 hours ago, Restorer said:

The most interesting thing is that the machine wheel is turned  clockwise away from you.

That’s interesting.   Does it have a hook that’s built backwards, or a gear to reverse the rotation of the hook?

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The shuttle is oscillating,  so it goes backwards and forwards in semi circles.  It picks up the thread in the needle , coming at the needle from behind the needle. I think my 31 class singers have the shuttle coming up from the front of the needle.

 

When I purchased this machine, it had 42-5. Scratched into the paint on the front,  Further investigations found a small bobbin , and not the large beak type bobbin on the 42 class. It came to me advertised as “working”.  , but all that meant is that it was free and moving, When I plugged it in to check the motor, the feed dog spat the work piece back at me.   So I changed the field winding wires in the motor to make it spin the opposite direction to match the machine. makes me think it was never used with the current motor to sew, and someone had changed motors , and didn’t understand, what was going on.  
 

Constabulary,   I have checked the feed dog , and with the needle and thread take up lever at top dead centre the feed dog is at the front most position.when sewing without threading the machine. The feed dogs move the material through very well with even stitch puncture holes.

 

I did notice that the hole in in the thread take up lever has some grooves which look sharp and may be snagging the upper thread and affecting upper tension.

Has anyone polished the hole in the thread take up lever, or repaired them some other way?..

regards and Thank Jack

Edited by Restorer

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so it was the motor and not the machine, right? ;)

For the thread hole try abrasive / emery cord.

 

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3 hours ago, Constabulary said:

so it was the motor and not the machine, right? ;)

For the thread hole try abrasive / emery cord.

 

Constabulary,  the machine head need to turn , clockwise, the electric motor fitted to the table was turning anticlockwise.I changed the electric motor to turn clockwise.

I Noticed on the pictures posted of the 16KSv you posted the the tension spring is above the spring adjusting plate, mine was below the little lug on the adjusting plate, so I have made it the same as yours, thank you for the link.

I will not be able to enjoying figuring this machine again until next weekend,

,Have a great week everyone, Jack

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Happy weekend everyone,  time for the update on my vintage c1892. Singer 16-41,  ... well after a couple of more attempts at timing the needle and hook , with no success, I went to the motor and turned the field coils around to spin the sewing machine  balance wheel counter clockwise.  Then adjusted the feed dog cam to feed the work pieces away from me. First attempt, I didn’t get the feed dog quite right, so second attempt, and it gained full motion,.

 

Time to try to sew,  and yes, it picked up the bobbin thread really easily,  and then sewing , for the first time in a really long time.

I am very happy to say the least,,   Thanks for the Guidance Constabulary,  very much appreciated,

regards Jack

 

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This post may be of some help.

Bert.

 

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