Another, what cylinder arm machine should I buy, post. Thanks!

[Auden]

I've obsessively read tons of posts until all the machines are running together in my head. I really want the Juki 1341. But it's expensive and this is a hobby for me. Would a clone be okay? 

I like to sew every day. 2-6 layers of 2-4 ounce chrome tanned leather (but that could change!). I'm a beginner and this is a hobby. I might sell extras I don't give as gifts or keep for myself, but probably not as a business. 
 

I'm not that great mechanically. I'm okay. Are ALL industial machines kind of temperamental? My Singer 111w155 was in rough shape when we got it and it seems like it's always having little problems. Like 30 minutes of TLC troubleshooting a day. 
 

I kind of want something to just work when I sit down to sew every day. Kind of like driving a Honda car. Not exciting, it just works (apologies to the American-only cars crowd). 
 

I was wondering if you could give me advice on a sewing machine? Or a dealer? I'm in Chesapeake, Virginia. I was thinking a cylinder arm with one of the attachments Uwe makes for the flat bed. 
 

Do I need to pay for the Juki 1341? It looks like they're around $5,000 USD just from a quick internet search. As usual, I'm kind of looking at the Techsew 2750 pro. But I'm nervous that it might be kind of prone to problems compared to the Juki and maybe I should get like a refurbished Juki 341 or 1341? 
 

Thank you!

Auden

Oops, I like to sew handbags and wallets. Forgot that part. 

[Constabulary]

Well question like this have been covered probbaly a dozen times.

13 hours ago, Auden said:

I like to sew every day. 2-6 layers of 2-4 ounce chrome tanned leather (but that could change!).

Thats quite a wide range of material thickness from 2x 2 ounce (together approx 1mm) to 6x 4 ounce (together approx 15mm)

So you either end up with (at least) 2 machines or you rethink your material thicknesses. You really want to sew 15mm (take a ruler and check) or is it rather less? It´s less, right? Layers do not matter really, the total material thickness matters.

New or refurbished doesn't matter in the end. You can have new machines which are poorly set up / do not suit your needs or you can have a refurbished machine which is set up perfectly for what you want to do. That often depends on your dealer or the seller. Can´t be wrong if you check with dealer who is specialized in leather sewing machines. Machines often look the same but can be set up for different purposes. If you buy used from a private seller always test the machine with the max. thread and material thickness you want to sew. But keep in mind the motor matters a lot. It´s not only the machine that has to suit your needs, the motor is very important too. So it can happen that your machine is great but the motor sucks (too fast, not powerful enough...).

Since you like UWE´s FBA - have you checked with him if he could offer you a proper machine? Just an idea...

[Auden]

Thank you for replying! It's not that unusual in bag making. I need to topstitch where the straps attach to the bag. My straps are 4 layers thick, on some designs the top of the bag is 2 layers. 
 

I can ask him! That's a good idea. 

[kgg]

Both the Juki 1341 and Techsew 2750 probably will not be suitable as their max sewing limit is below what you want to sew. You need to go into the 441 class machines. Another consideration is going to be what thread size you want / need to use. Class 341 class machines top thread is V207 with a bobbin thread of V138.

kgg

Edited January 22, 2021 by kgg
missing word

[Wizcrafts]

@Auden

Consider  the strength of various sizes of thread when searching for a suitable machine. For instance, any sewing machine I have had, from plastic body domestics through the heaviest iron body industrials can sew with #69 (aka: T70) bonded thread, using a #18 (aka: 110) needle (round point for cloth/vinyl; leather point for leather). The thickness each machine can sew together varies from machine to machine. Light duty machines will max out with #69 thread while harness stitchers are not gentle enough to handle it with grace.

Number 69 thread is fine for non load bearing, thin seams (2 through 4 oz), as it has about 11 pounds breaking strength. But, as you add tab and strap  layers on top of base layers, you can easily get over 8 - 12 ounces. This thickness is better sewn with 22 pound test #138 thread.

When you sew between 12 and 16 ounces, the stresses could be too much for #138 thread. This is when one might want to move up to #207 (aka: 210), on top and bottom (32 pounds test). Why? because if you have 207 on top and 138 in the bobbin, the stitches are only as strong as the smaller thread (22 pounds). Number 207 thread on top and bottom calls for a #24 (180) needle.

Once you exceed 16 ounces the stresses may exceed the ability of #207 thread to hold the seams together. This calls for #277 or larger thread and a harness/holster stitcher (example).

So, as you are looking for your best starter machine, consider not only the thickness range to be sewn, but also the strength of thread needed to hold the various thicknesses together against pulls, tugs, heavy loads, or getting caught on a door handle. If you think you can get by using thread sizes 69, 92 and 138, any modern industrial sewing machine that has enough rated operating clearance for your thickest seams should handle it.

If you want to sew with #207 thread, for stitch strength purposes, look for a heavy duty machine that is built with that size thread in mind. It will have tougher take-up and tension components than a medium duty machine built for an upper limit of #138 thread.

Your choices are more limited for a cylinder arm machine that handles up to 5/16 inch of material, using #207 thread on top and bottom, running a #24 needle. Once you hit 3/8 inch, it is best to have a machine that can handle #277 thread, top and bottom, using a #25 needle.

Here is a thread and needle chart that shows the specs of different sizes of industrial thread and the needles best matched to those threads.

[DonInReno]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:39 AM, Auden said:

Are ALL industial machines kind of temperamental? My Singer 111w155 was in rough shape when we got it and it seems like it's always having little problems. Like 30 minutes of TLC troubleshooting a day. 

No, not at all.  Industrials are built to be reliable and trouble free for very large amounts of sewing.   What kinds of issues are you having with the 111w155 that require so much troubleshooting?

[Auden]

2 hours ago, DonInReno said:

No, not at all.  Industrials are built to be reliable and trouble free for very large amounts of sewing.   What kinds of issues are you having with the 111w155 that require so much troubleshooting?

Thank you! That's kind of what I was hoping to hear, that they're mostly relaible. The bobbin thread doesn't catch/stitch or else needle thread breaks. It will do great on scrap leather of the exact same hide and layers and then I go to stitch the bag and I have problems. I followed Uwe's youtube video about the hook and needle timing and that helped a lot, but I'm still having problems with it. 

[DonInReno]

Uwe’s videos are excellent!   Something is preventing the hook from grabbing the loop of thread at the needle creating the skipped stitch.   As always make sure you have a fresh needle before making any adjustments.
 

 If your needle timing is spot on and the gap between needle and point of the hook is as small as possible without actually touching, then you might have a poorly shaped hook.   Every time a needle breaks or otherwise impacts the point of the hook it dulls it slightly.  A nice sharp hook will grab the thread loop more reliably and break thread much less often when the thread grab isn’t perfect.   
 

If the machine is new to you it might be a case of bad hand-me-down parts.  Dull hooks are often resharpened with mixed results, and some inexpensive hooks just have terrible shapes that work poorly even when new.   When selling a machine it’s common for a shop or person with multiple machines of the same type to combine all the crappiest parts into the one that’s going to be sold.

A slightly dull hook that’s otherwise of good quality and proper length and shape can be sharpened, but often if the point is quite dull it will also be much shorter than it was originally.

The stiffness of thread also effects the size of thread loop at the needle - just last week a sewer was having problems with some new thread - turned out they were trying to use a soft thread that’s not bonded.   Only use bonded thread.

Hopefully you find the gremlin that’s causing problems.

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by DonInReno