When do I punch?

[Dogfisher]

I decided to learn about dying veg tan yesterday so I cut out a flap wallet pattern and I created my first beautiful sunburst, oiled it nicely and then I tried to punch stitch holes. It was stiff and the leather cracked on the edges and between the holes. I do a lot of trial and error style learning as I imagine most of you do as well. I'm assuming my process is not in the right order. I would love some advice about your processes. When do I cut out pattern,  punch stitching holes, stamp the makers mark, dampen the leather for dying, when to oil, , when to finish the edges, when to stitch, etc. I used a cheap diamond chisel from a cheapy set. Probably part of the problem. Also, I came of my stitch line because I attempted to punch it folded, without glue. Rookie mistake.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Dogfisher
Added info.

[YinTx]

Shoulda worked fine in that order.  I've not had cracking like that when I stitch mark, so maybe the irons?  Or maybe not the best leather?  Stitch marking folded would be an issue.  With or without glue should not matter.

YinTx

[fredk]

That looks a bit like blunt stitching chisels points. Make sure they are razor sharp and also polish the sides.

[Aven]

What do you punch on?

[Dogfisher]

These are some crappy stitching chisels out of a kit. They are black and not polished at all and I think they are too close together. I don't want to buy more until I really know why I don't like these. Good tools area big investment and I'm still just learning. I am going to try oil dyes on my next test to see if it keeps the leather softer and less likely to crack. 

[Dogfisher]

Help me upgrade my setup. What's a reasonably priced set of stitching chisels or pricks? How close do I need the holes for saddle stitching?

[battlemunky]

I'd never experienced tearing like that with my set of cheap diamond punches but I'd polished mine up the best I could too. I did get some ugly holes on the exit side.

As far as punch recommendations, I have Sinabroks which are excellent...they are not inexpensive though but are basically perfect in every way making them worth it to me. Reasonable price, maybe not, but these exceed my desires every use.

That sucks though man, that starburst looks great.

[jcuk]

It looks like you have slightly missed your stitching line and tried to correct it by forcing it back onto the line, do place your chisel in one former prick mark if you do go back two it will help kept it on a straight line.

Hope this helps

JCUK

[Dogfisher]

 Sinabroks would be nice. Still on a startup budget, however. What's a good stitch length for saddle stitching? Also, how the heck do you polish the black matte diamond chisels? They are crappy. The missed stitching groove was an attempt to punch the wallet folded. Bad choice.

[mike02130]

Any size is the right size.  For wallets 3mm or 3.38mm works well.  Use .5mm or smaller thread.

[Loudcherokee]

I know the Amazon stuff usually isn't favored here, but I have had good luck with these sets from Amazon, and I have them in 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm. 

https://www.amazon.com/Aiskaer-Diamond-Lacing-Stitching-Leather/dp/B014549SNG/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=aisker%2Bstitching%2Birons&qid=1612134752&sprefix=aisker&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1

I've also learned that while punching on a punch board works, throwing a scrap piece of 7 ounce veg tan under the piece im punching through seems to both leave cleaner holes, and feels like it takes less blows to drive the punches through. This also makes it to where I don't need to use an awl in the holes while stitching. 

My only complaint on these punches is the 6 hole punch can be a little tough to pull out of thick stuff, like 2 layers of 7/8 for a holster for example, but the thinner stuff like wallets has been good. 

I am a beginner at this stuff so take it with a grain of salt I suppose but I've had good luck with these irons and they are reasonably priced if you wanted to pick up sets in different sizes. 

LC

[fredk]

14 hours ago, Dogfisher said:

 I am going to try oil dyes on my next test to see if it keeps the leather softer and less likely to crack. 

Oil dye will still dry out the leather, you need to apply a small amount of pure neetsfoot oil, aka nfo, to soften the leather. Go easy with the nfo, not too much, its easy to apply too much and near impossible to remove it

[Dogfisher]

So I just sharpened and polished my crappy diamond chisels. Much nicer. Thanks for the advice. I also ordered these Aiskaer White Steel 4mm Diamond Lacing Stitching Chisel Set for $11 on Amazon. We'll see if the thinner prongs work better for me.

[fredk]

They'll need sharpened as well

Now, punching the sewing holes -

1. block of bees wax

2. stab chisel teeth into wax

3. punch some holes

4. punch some more holes

5. back to 2

6. as 3 & 4 until you're all punched out

[OLESKIVER]

what fredk said!  but you might also look at weaver leather, their punches are nice and fairly inexpensive. at  least they are made in usa. fixing to buy their whole line of diamond punches since I found out my tandy "  premium" punches are made in china.  hope this helps. one thing about buying top end tools....you only have to buy them once..theoretically!  all my punches have one or both of two words I look for in the description, forged or drop forged.   hope this helps

[Rahere]

16 hours ago, OLESKIVER said:

what fredk said!  but you might also look at weaver leather, their punches are nice and fairly inexpensive. at  least they are made in usa. fixing to buy their whole line of diamond punches since I found out my tandy "  premium" punches are made in china.  hope this helps. one thing about buying top end tools....you only have to buy them once..theoretically!  all my punches have one or both of two words I look for in the description, forged or drop forged.   hope this helps

It must be said, schooled in heavy engineering, the idea of drop-forging something that small is bemusing! I'm more used to APC shells...

[Loudcherokee]

On 2/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, Dogfisher said:

So I just sharpened and polished my crappy diamond chisels. Much nicer. Thanks for the advice. I also ordered these Aiskaer White Steel 4mm Diamond Lacing Stitching Chisel Set for $11 on Amazon. We'll see if the thinner prongs work better for me.

Cool! Let me know what you think of them. 

 

LC

[Hardrada]

https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-2x3mm/a-19396

https://www.goodsjapan.com/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-4x3mm/a-20773

https://www.goodsjapan.com/leathercraft-items/pricking-irons-stitch-punches/seiwa-diamond-leather-stitching-chisel-leathercraft-pricking-iron-tool-10x3mm/a-20974

 

They also have them in 4 mm for thicker thread, and in 2.5 mm for small leather goods. Seiwa are inexpensive, yet top notch, durable chisels. Don't be put off by their unappealing, almost raw looks: they're VERY good quality. That's what I use for 4 mm spacings. I started out with 3 mm Tandy ones, but replaced them with 3.38 mm KS Blade last summer.

Goodsjapan.com has tons of excellent leathercraft tools, Japan-made, and very good quality at very good prices. What else can one ask for? I've gotten my skiving knives, leather stamps, Kyoshin Elle edgers and diamond awl, plus other tools from them. Never disappointed.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Hardrada

[AzShooter]

I use the same procedure as the OP.  One thing I can say is to make sure your leather is dry before you start using the chisel.  I also use a rubber mat to dampen the blows from the chisel.  I use a 2 pound maul and it easily goes through my 2 layers of 8-9 ounce leather with about 2 hits.

I do stamping, then dying  and then the chisel.  I sand the edges before making my grove line and then once I put my holsters together I sand again and then burnish the edges.

My system works for me.  I may be doing it wrong.

[Rahere]

11 hours ago, AzShooter said:

I use the same procedure as the OP.  One thing I can say is to make sure your leather is dry before you start using the chisel.  I also use a rubber mat to dampen the blows from the chisel.  I use a 2 pound maul and it easily goes through my 2 layers of 8-9 ounce leather with about 2 hits.

I do stamping, then dying  and then the chisel.  I sand the edges before making my grove line and then once I put my holsters together I sand again and then burnish the edges.

My system works for me.  I may be doing it wrong.

If it works for you, great. A beginner is advided to geove first, so he punches in the ditch with the thread automatically recessed, although light pounding can improve on that too.

I've accidentally found that channelling after surface-dying creates an impressive colour contrast as the original natural tan comes through.

[Woodshed]

I generally use stitching chisels just like I would a stitching wheel, simply as a tool for marking stitch locations. Holes are then punched at each location one hole at a time with an awl, as stitching progresses. Depending on the leather being used and the combined thickness being punched, the forces involved in punching  4 or 6 holes holes and removing the chisels just seems too prone to distorting the leather.

[Dogfisher]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:37 AM, Loudcherokee said:

Cool! Let me know what you think of them. 

LC

The Aiskaers are great. They come with a little case and after I polished them up, they pull out of the leather very easily. Hindsight, I should have gone with 5mm. Wider stitches, less stitching.

[Loudcherokee]

1 hour ago, Dogfisher said:

The Aiskaers are great. They come with a little case and after I polished them up, they pull out of the leather very easily. Hindsight, I should have gone with 5mm. Wider stitches, less stitching.

As cheap as they are, get multiple sets. Ive got them in 3, 4, and 5 mm. I mostly use the 4, but for wallets and smaller items with smaller thread i use the 3. I haven't used the 5 yet. 

How did you polish them? Did you get inbetween the tines too? Or just the outsides?

They do come with a nice plastic case and a pouch, but I ended up making a case for one of my sets just to see if I could do it. I used some scrap pull up. 

LC

Edited February 7, 2021 by Loudcherokee

[Dogfisher]

I just polished the outside. I haven't attempted between the tines yet. Trying to find the best method.

[billybopp]

8 minutes ago, Dogfisher said:

I just polished the outside. I haven't attempted between the tines yet. Trying to find the best method.

Some sandpaper glued to a popsicle stick will work well for getting between the tines in most cases.

- Bill