Cooper Special 30" long arm

[Primosand]

This is for sale on "offer up" in the Los Angeles area. The seller doesn't answer questions and just tells me I'll need to drive 3 hours each way and to come check it out (what a ing asshole). It looks to me to be a Adler clone but I'm not at all sure. If anyone knows something about Copper Machine Co. out of Chicago please let me know.

Before driving 3 hours I'd like to know :

*Is this an Adler clone and if so what is the Adler sub-model?

*pressure foot lift height ?

*needle size range ? (I use needles size 16 to #23 on my current Consew 226r)

*thread size range ? (I currently us T70, T92 and occasionally T-138)

*is it a triple feed or compound feed machine? (needle feed, alternating walking foot)

thanks for your time

Edited March 12, 2021 by Primosand
mistakes

[Handstitched]

G'Day, quite a good looking machine.

It looks like a Consew 745R 30" arm or a Seiko JW- 28BL .

One of the machines thats on my ' bucket list' . 

Hope this points you in the right direction.

HS

Edited March 13, 2021 by Handstitched

[Matt S]

I'd say it looks like a long-arm Adler 167 but I can't say for certain that it is. Adlers are excellent quality machines. If it's what I think it is it'll be basically similar specs to your Consew 226. Triple/compound feed.

[Northmount]

@Primosand moved to leather sewing machines

[shoepatcher]

Thus is an Adler 221-76-73 machine.  Cooper when they were in business,  would buy heads from various manufacturers and rework them for their own purposes.  A lot of time, they made big clamp style programable machines with big clamp areas.  This is a very good Adler and heavier than a 267, 767, 867.  The next class of machine up from this as to thickness of sewing was the Adler 205-270.  This has about a 1" lift and will sew with 207 and possibly 277 thread.  Needle system is 7 x 23. they were used a lot in the tent, pool cover, truck tarp industry.  I have it predecessor's, the 220 and mine is a 20" machine.  What he is asking for it if I may ask?  The screw holding the outside foot on is backwards. Nut should be on the right side of the foot, not left side.

[CowboyBob]

10 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Thus is an Adler 221-76-73 machine.  Cooper when they were in business,  would buy heads from various manufacturers and rework them for their own purposes.  A lot of time, they made big clamp style programable machines with big clamp areas.  This is a very good Adler and heavier than a 267, 767, 867.  The next class of machine up from this as to thickness of sewing was the Adler 205-270.  This has about a 1" lift and will sew with 207 and possibly 277 thread.  Needle system is 7 x 23. they were used a lot in the tent, pool cover, truck tarp industry.  I have it predecessor's, the 220 and mine is a 20" machine.  What he is asking for it if I may ask?  The screw holding the outside foot on is backwards. Nut should be on the right side of the foot, not left side.

Hey Glenn,the double needles use the 7x23,this uses 7x3 ,7x4 or 794 needles.

[shoepatcher]

Bob,

I just checked the original Adler sales brochure for the 220 I have and both single and double needle say 7x23needles which I am running.    However, at Vaughn, used 794 in both the Single needle 221's.  I think I will switch mine to the 794.  Thank Bob for the heads up. 

glenn

[Primosand]

SHOEPATCHER thanks for the help. I'm sorry that I didn't include the asking price. I thought I had, I usually do and I'm quick to jump on others for not including the price AND PICTURES !!

So I apologize to everyone for "asking for help" and forgetting to include the price. The guy is asking $3500

So if I'm hearing you correctly this machine is a real (not a clone) "made in Germany or West Germany Adler" model number 221-76-73 that the now "out of business Copper Machine Company" may have modified.

I really don't want to go way over my budget which is between $0 - $2000 for a long arm upholstery machine (I know that's a bit of wishful thinking but that's how I am = poor). But if this used cooper is a rare opportunity to buy a really nice, quality Adler long arm I'd be willing to spend what it takes.

The fact that this is an original Adler and not a clone sounds very good to me.

Shoepather what do you think of this asking price ($3500)?

What does any one else that's interested think of the price ? Owe ? Wiz ? Cowboy Bob? I like to hear what others with different sewing experiences and skill levels think.

thanks again everyone

Edited March 15, 2021 by Primosand

[shoepatcher]

I would offer less money.  Can he supply sewn samples to you to verify that it does indeed sew.  These machines used to bring big money  aka $5,000.00-7,500.00.  Not so much any more.  New the 767H which replaced the 221 is expensive.  $, 15,000.00 plus.    I would offer $3,000.00 tops.  It is indeed a real Adler.  Just so you know, the 3 pedal system on the bottom of the stand that works the motor, reverse, foot lift is cast , not stamped.  The pedal system last time i check which was years ago was $950.00!!    just for that. 

glenn

Edited March 22, 2021 by shoepatcher
grammar

[kgg]

33 minutes ago, shoepatcher said:

I would offer less money.  Can he supply sewn samples to you to verify that it does indeed sew. 

My concern with spending that kind of money would be who you are purchasing it from. Is it someone that is using the machine or a dealer or a re-seller or a flipper. If it was from a dealer maybe worthwhile in making an offer, if it suits your needs, but from a flipper I would need to see it running and gone through. I would also investigate the availability of parts / accessories and check with dealers for other used machines.

kgg

 

[CowboyBob]

It looks like a clean machine that hasn't had alot of use,I would never sell one like this for less than what they are asking.

[Primosand]

shoepatcher

kgg

CowboyBob

thanks for the input, it's very helpful. I tried to talk to the guy selling the Copper and he won't answer questions and just gets snotty. He just says drive down (3 hrs each way) and bring $3500 cash so that's a dead end. He's had it listed for sale for over 2 years. I just don't get it.

MOVING ON ....

This other Adler 220 76-273 has popped up in my area (5 hrs each way ) asking $4000 !!!

I told him I was considering German precision/hard to get parts/part are expensive vs going with a used Japanese long arm like Seiko of Juki where parts are easily sourced and more affordable.

I told him I'd think it over and get back to him. I'm worried I might be letting a good one get away if I don't grab this one. When he was at $4k I threw out $2k and that brought him down to $3k so now I'm considering offering $2500 (which I still think is too high) but these are supposed to be the best sewing machines ever made ....... right?

I'll post the few pictures I have and would love to hear from anyone that knows Adler long arms and Juki and Seiko long-arms. What would the rest of you do ? walk away or pay up ?

THANKS

thanks for the help

 

..Japanese vs German)

 

 

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:32 PM, Primosand said:

If anyone knows something about Copper Machine Co. out of Chicago please let me know.

The machine was sold by COOPER, not COPPER. You can read this on the logo on the machine in the first photo.

[chrisash]

You could always pay a local (to the machine) machine person to check it out for you, though a 3-5 hour drive is not that much of a problem to many and means you can bring the machine home at the same time

[Primosand]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The machine was sold by COOPER, not COPPER. You can read this on the logo on the machine in the first photo.

thanks for the help

Edited June 8, 2021 by Primosand

[Primosand]

Well here's how it went down. Alder 220 76-273 in proper working condition coming home to Los Angeles

 

 

 

Leatherworkers.net ....... Thanks for all the help

[CowboyBob]

Looks like a great deal !

 

[JayEhl]

What a great story!  I Love Love Love this forum!