Why do people say "handmade"?

[Spyros]

1 minute ago, chuck123wapati said:

Really?  then why even ask the question you have made it a moot point? the word Truth is as ambiguous and personal  as handmade.

What do you mean mate, I don't follow... I wasn't trying to make a point, and not everybody cares about customers (I certainly dont), I just had a philosophical question that's all.

[chuck123wapati]

4 minutes ago, Frodo said:

I believe Chuck brought this point up in the last discussion on this topic

the only true hand made leather items were made by the Indians who killed, tanned and sewn the skin with the aid of ZERO machines

they made everything from the knives to the needles.  Machines were not involved

i believe i did say that, so the new mallet i am making,  i killed an elk drug it out of the mountains skinned, scraped, and dried the hide for the head cut the tree down for the handle drilled it with a  drill press turned the whole thing on my lathe and assembled it, added some brass or steel washers. What do i have? a handmade mallet? or one just like you can buy from tandy?  How would i advertise it for sale without being called a liar or cheat? l

[Frodo]

I believe the word that would be correct is ''custom"  

I would personally call it handmade but the  word custom would be more a accurate term 

 

according to webster. hand made means with out machinery 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Frodo

[chuck123wapati]

4 minutes ago, Spyros said:

 (I certainly dont), 

nuff said there ! 

[Spyros]

1 minute ago, chuck123wapati said:

nuff said there ! 

I still don't understand you.  Is this a website only for people who sell stuff?  Does every discussion has to revolve around sales?

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, Frodo said:

I believe the word that would be correct is ''custom"  

I would personally call it handmade but the  word custom would be more a accurate term 

 

according to webster. hand made means with out machinery 

 

custom would work very well. Maybe hand crafted? 

[Frodo]

This is handmade  I watch his old man and marvel at his skill  

Edited June 9, 2021 by Frodo

[Spyros]

A human-powered machine is still a machine

Webster said no machines Lol

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, Spyros said:

I still don't understand you.  Is this a website only for people who sell stuff?  Does every discussion has to revolve around sales?

no its not and no it doesn't in your case but in mine and others who have responded it does. you should have been clearer and said I don't sell my stuff so I don't care, instead it didn't sound very well imo. in the end however it still is the decision of whom ever see's it or you talk about it with or give it to that will decide if they think your works is truly handmade.

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, Spyros said:

A human-powered machine is still a machine

Webster said no machines Lol

webster said this,  so what is a hand process?     Definition of handmade: made by hand or by a hand process

[Spyros]

15 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

webster said this,  so what is a hand process?     Definition of handmade: made by hand or by a hand process

What does that mean?  Can we use tools?  Machines?  What if it's a man powered machine, like a press?

I don't understand where is the cutoff point exactly.  Is it the use of electricity?   So if you make everything manually but then you do a crease with an electric creasing machine you're disqualified?

If I use a pc & printer to print a pattern?  Am I allowed to turn the lights on or does it have to be candlelight?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Spyros

[Carnivore]

1 hour ago, Frodo said:

I believe Chuck brought this point up in the last discussion on this topic

the only true hand made leather items were made by the Indians who killed, tanned and sewn the skin with the aid of ZERO machines

they made everything from the knives to the needles.  Machines were not involved

To be totally handmade they would have had to have killed the deer by hand ie: throttled it.

[Klara]

Actually, what "handmade" conjures in my mind is that the item has been made by one person. Who possibly used a machine at some point... I'm a member of an Artisan's Association (as a dyer, spinner, weaver and knitter - and yes, I do have my own flock of sheep) - we all sell hand-made products, but I use a drum carder and spinning wheel, the tailor a sewing machine, quite possibly also the guy who makes handbags from chrome-tanned leathers, certainly the lady who makes bags from fabric and recycled leather garments. The common point is that we start with raw materials (not kits!) and use our skill to make something from them. Also it is our decision what to make and how to make it.

That's not the dictionary definition, but it's what I think when I read hand-made. Unless I go to IKEA and see a ceiling-high stack of "hand-made" baskets. Then I'm thinking of exploited workers in some faraway country getting paid pennies for a day's work... (though there's still a good chance that one basket was made by one worker)

 

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Carnivore said:

To be totally handmade they would have had to have killed the deer by hand ie: throttled it.

If they made thier bows and arrows?

[chuck123wapati]

3 hours ago, Spyros said:

What does that mean?  Can we use tools?  Machines?  What if it's a man powered machine, like a press?

I don't understand where is the cutoff point exactly.  Is it the use of electricity?   So if you make everything manually but then you do a crease with an electric creasing machine you're disqualified?

If I use a pc & printer to print a pattern?  Am I allowed to turn the lights on or does it have to be candlelight?

I don't know what that means but it is the crux of the question. 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

Actually, what "handmade" conjures in my mind is that the item has been made by one person. Who possibly used a machine at some point... I'm a member of an Artisan's Association (as a dyer, spinner, weaver and knitter - and yes, I do have my own flock of sheep) - we all sell hand-made products, but I use a drum carder and spinning wheel, the tailor a sewing machine, quite possibly also the guy who makes handbags from chrome-tanned leathers, certainly the lady who makes bags from fabric and recycled leather garments. The common point is that we start with raw materials (not kits!) and use our skill to make something from them. Also it is our decision what to make and how to make it.

That's not the dictionary definition, but it's what I think when I read hand-made. Unless I go to IKEA and see a ceiling-high stack of "hand-made" baskets. Then I'm thinking of exploited workers in some faraway country getting paid pennies for a day's work... (though there's still a good chance that one basket was made by one worker)

 

So what say does your customer have?  In the end its really them who decide if your work is handmade isn't it?  

[Tugadude]

14 hours ago, Spyros said:

Yeah, why not?  The fact that an even more manual process exists (hand stitching), doesn't make running a sewing machine any less of a manual process that requires good hand-eye coordination, practice, knowledge and natural dexterity.      Besides, stitching (whether manual or machine) is only one part of the process of making a bag or a wallet, there are many more as you know, and they are manual.

Based on the number of threads here regarding problems with sewing machines, tension, speed, etc. I have come to the conclusion that hand stitching is a good choice for me.  Of course I am a hobbyist, so that matters.

[chuck123wapati]

5 hours ago, Spyros said:

What does that mean?  Can we use tools?  Machines?  What if it's a man powered machine, like a press?

I don't understand where is the cutoff point exactly.  Is it the use of electricity?   So if you make everything manually but then you do a crease with an electric creasing machine you're disqualified?

If I use a pc & printer to print a pattern?  Am I allowed to turn the lights on or does it have to be candlelight?

To me the term hand process means hand sewn not machine sewn, hand cut not clicker cut, hand dyed not factory dyed, hand tooled not embossed with a wheel, etc. 

[LatigoAmigo]

@Spyros  Why do people say "handmade"? Because it is a handy marketing term that implies quality construction with attention to detail. 

[Klara]

17 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

So what say does your customer have?  In the end its really them who decide if your work is handmade isn't it?  

My customer can buy or not buy, they cannot tell me how to do my work. Incidentally, my labels state the fibre composition and handspun/handknitted/handwoven, whatever applies...

I've just thought of Peter Collingwood, world-famous English weaver, who hated the whole handmade hype and in an interview said something like: "Of course it's handwoven, I'm not working with my feet!"

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Klara

[Tugadude]

Weaving with your feet would be quite a feat.

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Klara said:

, they cannot tell me how to do my work. 

 

you may have misunderstood the question it was about what they thought your work was, handmade or not, and if the opinion of those people who buy your stuff mattered?

Not trying to argue at all just wondering how folks feel about those who buy or use their stuff. It is more of a question of ethics.

[Klara]

I believe I  still don't understand your question: Ethics? If people talk to me they realize that my stuff is hand-made (because then I can explain that the wool comes from my sheep, that the only thing I don't do myself is the shearing, but I sort, wash, dye, card and spin the wool and then use this yarn for knitting or weaving the final product which I've designed myself.) If people just look they may not realize things are hand-made because they "look too good".

Though in most markets (not the big Christmas one, sadly) I'm sitting at my spinning wheel and working while waiting for customers, that helps.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Klara

[chuck123wapati]

46 minutes ago, Klara said:

I believe I  still don't understand your question: Ethics? If people talk to me they realize that my stuff is hand-made (because then I can explain that the wool comes from my sheep, that the only thing I don't do myself is the shearing, but I sort, wash, dye, card and spin the wool and then use this yarn for knitting or weaving the final product which I've designed myself.) If people just look they may not realize things are hand-made because they "look too good".

Though in most markets (not the big Christmas one, sadly) I'm sitting at my spinning wheel and working while waiting for customers, that helps.

Not necessarily you or your products but in general.

[Tugadude]

I think there's another factor to take into account and that is the fact that marketing has ruined some words due to misuse or abuse.  Does "new and improved" indicate the previous product was "old and crappy"?  Or just not quite so good?

Genuine leather is something we've discussed here at length.  Just what does the average, uninitiated consumer believe that means?  Regardless of the actual meaning.  

So handmade does indeed mean different things to different people, and when used inappropriately clouds the issue even further.

I bought a bag of chips the other day at a local gas station.  The gas station was recently rebuilt, completely.  Before the construction I could buy the same product and the bag was heavier and cheaper than what they are selling today.  So now I'm paying more for less.  There's a name for this trend, shrinkflation.  

Here's a recent report on it...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grocery-prices-rise-supermarkets/