111W155 Puckering on soft material

[JimmieJoe]

I have recently gotten into working with leather and upholstery due to the surge in furniture damage from animals as people return to the work place. Initially I purchased a Singer Heavy Duty machine only to find that it is not heavy duty at all.  Next I got Nelco N-250-B-3, but found that 92 thread maxed out the tension system, after that I got a Chinese shoe patcher, but found sewing a long straight stitch can be challenging. Then I got a Singer 95-10 only to find that stitch length is a challenge, so I got a Brother LT2-B831-3 which spec wise should meet the stitch length, but can only achieve it on paper, once you start sewing with real material and thread it can not meet the stitch length, so finally I got my hands on a 111W155.

Little by little I am finding more and more issues with the 111W155 that I have been correcting as I go. The thread tension was so tight that it hurt your finger to pull slack to get the material out of the machine. The outer presser foot was rubbing on the inner presser foot. I then followed on of the navy manual to setup the machine, but turns out the needle travel for hook timing was incorrect in the navy manual as is said to use 3/16". I ended up following the UWE video series to get the hook timing set correctly, and then did the Tension Release Slide video as well to find out that the Tension release slide is bent and non functional. The machine seem to be in working order now, but when i started to sew sofa material, I started to get puckering. I have relaxed the top tension to the point that the spring is barely making contact with the tension disk, and have backed off the bobbin tension to match. Now is I slow slow the lock is pulled to the bottom of the material and if I sew faster the lock is pulled to the top of the material. I still get some puckering so I wonder if the presser feet may be part of the issue. The outer presser for tension is set a couple turns from not making contact with the flat spring. I have not made any adjustments to the inner presser foot since I got it and have no idea what is a good setting for the tension on the inner and outer presser feet since I do not yet understand there role in forming of a stitch and moving of material.

Is there any good reference for setting the tension on the thread and feet when working with soft materials?

For reference the 111W155 came with a 264510 feed dog, 240144 throat plate, 240517 and 240518 presser feet.

[trash treasure]

Many causes of puckering - Not only the machine - A lot of info here :

https://coats.com/en/information-hub/Eliminating-Seam-Puckering

[Wizcrafts]

The 111 series were made to sew upholstery. You are probably running your thread tensions too high. Back off the top and bottom until you get decent stitches without puckering or looseness. The check spring can fine tune the lay once the other issues are worked out.

[JimmieJoe]

16 hours ago, trash treasure said:

Many causes of puckering - Not only the machine - A lot of info here :

https://coats.com/en/information-hub/Eliminating-Seam-Puckering

Thanks. I already found a similar article on the coats site. While the weave on the back of the Upholstery is tighter than what I normally use, if I cut the stitches it lays flat.

Edited September 1, 2021 by JimmieJoe

[JimmieJoe]

12 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The 111 series were made to sew upholstery. You are probably running your thread tensions too high. Back off the top and bottom until you get decent stitches without puckering or looseness. The check spring can fine tune the lay once the other issues are worked out.

I am sewing upholstery it just happens to be a very soft upholstery. Spradling Dolce. I can not adjust the thread tension any lower, the top tension disk will not make contact if I back off any further. I can make balanced stitch, but the material still puckers. The stitch length is also shorter than it should be.

Edited September 1, 2021 by JimmieJoe

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, JimmieJoe said:

I am sewing upholstery it just happens to be a very soft upholstery. Spradling Dolce. I can not adjust the thread tension any lower, the top tension disk will not make contact if I back off any further. I can make balanced stitch, but the material still puckers. The stitch length is also shorter than it should be.

Then you've reached the point of no further gain. Have you played with the presser foot pressures? Is there a coil spring on the inside alternating foot bar inside the head? If so, remove it or adjust it out of action. This will make the machine behave more like a needle feed machine and the inside foot won't push down as hard. If you are able to remove or nullify the inside foot pressure spring, the outside foot pressure screw will control both feet.

[JimmieJoe]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Then you've reached the point of no further gain. Have you played with the presser foot pressures? Is there a coil spring on the inside alternating foot bar inside the head? If so, remove it or adjust it out of action. This will make the machine behave more like a needle feed machine and the inside foot won't push down as hard. If you are able to remove or nullify the inside foot pressure spring, the outside foot pressure screw will control both feet.

I have recently followed Uwe's Tension Release Slide video so the outer presser foot has been adjusted. The screw is currently set at 2 turn after contact with the flat spring is made.

I have not adjusted the inner presser foot, it does have a coil spring inside the head. I will follow your advice regarding the inner presser foot, and see if that helps. Given me a few days to work on that. I have not worked on that section of the machine, so not sure what I may find.

Edited September 1, 2021 by JimmieJoe

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, JimmieJoe said:

I have not adjusted the inner presser foot, it does have a coil spring inside the head. I will follow your advice regarding the inner presser foot, and see if that helps.

The reason walking foot machines aren't normally used with soft materials is because the inside foot pushes directly over a hole or slot in the feed dog. This also causes the foot tracks around the needle holes. The inside foot is hooked up so when it presses down the outside foot raises. I have had a bit of success by removing the spring or backing off the adjuster over the inside foot on soft materials. However, this is a make-do solution. There are better feed systems: Roller Foot and Needle Feed.

A roller foot machine is for leather, like garment leather and has a roller on the left of the needle. The needle hole is in the throat plate and doesn't move. A needle feed machine can work with leather or cloth. Needle feed machines have a flat fixed presser foot that's always down (until you lift it), while the feed dog and needle move the work. There is no inside foot to squish the material or pucker it.

If loosening or removing the spring over the inside foot doesn't help, then you may need to consider one of the above types of machine. Note, that a tailoring machine can often be retrofitted with a roller presser foot. It requires raising the presser bar as high as it will go. There are 3 piece kits that replace the foot, feed dog and throat plate. A roller foot machine has a single row feed dog. They are available in different courseness of teeth, from light to heavy duty grip.

[JimmieJoe]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The reason walking foot machines aren't normally used with soft materials is because the inside foot pushes directly over a hole or slot in the feed dog. This also causes the foot tracks around the needle holes. The inside foot is hooked up so when it presses down the outside foot raises. I have had a bit of success by removing the spring or backing off the adjuster over the inside foot on soft materials. However, this is a make-do solution. There are better feed systems: Roller Foot and Needle Feed.

A roller foot machine is for leather, like garment leather and has a roller on the left of the needle. The needle hole is in the throat plate and doesn't move. A needle feed machine can work with leather or cloth. Needle feed machines have a flat fixed presser foot that's always down (until you lift it), while the feed dog and needle move the work. There is no inside foot to squish the material or pucker it.

If loosening or removing the spring over the inside foot doesn't help, then you may need to consider one of the above types of machine. Note, that a tailoring machine can often be retrofitted with a roller presser foot. It requires raising the presser bar as high as it will go. There are 3 piece kits that replace the foot, feed dog and throat plate. A roller foot machine has a single row feed dog. They are available in different courseness of teeth, from light to heavy duty grip.

Thank you for the explanation, I have not had a chance to work on the 111w155 inner presser yet.  The feed dog on the 111w155 is the slotted version, instead of the hole version. I have looked to see if I can  get the hole version but so far I have been unsuccessful in finding the 111w155 part numbers on the 111w155 parts list in the after market.

I do have both a dog feed 95-10 and a needle feed LT2-B831-3, but I can not achieve the stitch length normal for upholstery on these machines. On the 95-10 I can only achieve 8SPI in material, but it is supposed to be able to achieve 7spi.  The LT2-B831-3 can achieve 7spi in material, but is supposed to be able to achieve a 5mm stitch which would be about 5SPI. I am learning a lot about how tension can have an impact on stitch length so I will need to go through those machines as well to see If I can get them to their rated stitch length, but that will have to wait as I am making good progress on the 111w155.

Your information is very insightful. I will also look into the 3 piece kit, I have seen just the foot, but have not seen the kit, in case i have to go down that route, but I am hopeful the 111w155 will be able to do it.

[JimmieJoe]

I spent some time today looking at the inner presser, and I found that the thumb screw over the inner presser bar was turned all the way in. I backed all the way out and then turned it in 2 turns. I then ran some stitches and found that the top tension had relaxed resulting in the loop moving to the bottom and the bobbin thread became a straight line. Not sure, way relaxing the tension on the inner presser foot would relax the top thread tension.

How are these connected?

Edited September 2, 2021 by JimmieJoe

[Wizcrafts]

26 minutes ago, JimmieJoe said:

I spent some time today looking at the inner presser, and I found that the thumb screw over the inner presser bar was turned all the way in. I backed all the way out and then turned it in 2 turns. I then ran some stitches and found that the top tension had relaxed resulting in the loop moving to the bottom and the bobbin thread became a straight line. Not sure, way relaxing the tension on the inner presser foot would relax the top thread tension.

How are these connected?

You will have to play with a combination of adjusting the pressure springs for the inside and outside feet to find the magic spot that doesn't pucker the material or the thread.

[JimmieJoe]

10 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You will have to play with a combination of adjusting the pressure springs for the inside and outside feet to find the magic spot that doesn't pucker the material or the thread.

Ok, I have the top thread tension, the bobbin thread tension, the inner presser foot spring and the outer presser foot spring at there lightest settings and the machine is able to sew the material and the material is staying flat after it is sewn, I am also able to achieve the correct stitch length now as well as the maximum stitch length that the machine is capable of in the material.

I also change the presser feet from 240517 and 240518 to 240148 and 240149 which help as well, so I now have a 2 toed outer presser instead of a left toe only outer presser foot.

I sewed some upholstery leather at these setting as well to see if it would sew at these setting and it does, but a little more top thread tension is needed to balance the stitch which I did not do since I need to work with the Spradling Dolce first.

Seems the previous owners of each of my machines have been running them at or near max tension on everything.  Now I have a better understanding of why I have been breaking the needle thread on all of my machines as well. I will have to go though each of them and relax everything and then balance them out.

Thank you.

Edited September 2, 2021 by JimmieJoe

[Wizcrafts]

23 minutes ago, JimmieJoe said:

Thank you.

I'm glad to have been able to help you.

[JimmieJoe]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:11 AM, Wizcrafts said:

 Note, that a tailoring machine can often be retrofitted with a roller presser foot. It requires raising the presser bar as high as it will go. There are 3 piece kits that replace the foot, feed dog and throat plate. A roller foot machine has a single row feed dog. They are available in different courseness of teeth, from light to heavy duty grip.

I found the kit you are referring to. I thought a roller foot was a high shank foot with rollers in it, not an arm with a wheel on the end.

I found one that has 2 different size wheel that I will try on my 95-10. Hopefully I can get the stitch length to 7 spi instead of 8spi in material.

[JimmieJoe]

I found that part of my problem was due to the needle pushing the material into the feed dog. After I purchased a feed dog with a needle that match my needle size the problem significantly improved.