What kind of stone?

[MtlBiker]

I started off looking for an oil stone for sharpening my new round knife (should arrive hopefully by tomorrow) and I'm totally confused by the vast choices that are available and I have no idea what to get.  In my company workshop (picture framing shop) we've had a couple of oil stones for probably 40-50 years.  They work fine for what we use them for.  But I want to equip myself with what I need to keep my leather cutting tools sharp which I'll keep at home where I do my leatherwork and sewing.

I guess I need something for getting a rough edge on a new blade in better shape and then something else for fine-tuning the edge and getting it razor sharp.  And a strop (which I've got ready) for polishing the edge.

I found Arkansas Oil Stones in medium, fine and extra fine grits (no actual grit value specified, but they recommend both the medium and extra fine) at Lee Valley tools.  Then I find diamond grit stones and also ceramic stones and even green silicon carbide.  Totally confusing.  I don't want to go overboard, but I want to learn how to and then maintain my leather cutting tools properly.

What would you suggest as a minimum to get me started?  Thanks very much.

Here are the two oil stones we have in our workshop... they are the only oil stones I have any experience with.

 

[paloma]

blue slate

[tsunkasapa]

I have a range of stones from coarse carborundum to some antiques used for razors. It depends what you need to do. The carborundum is used more for shaping. Arkansas stones do most of my preliminary sharpening, then the razor stones followed by the strop. I also keep sheets of wet'r'dry sand paper in various grits, but I don't go to the extreme that some here do. I think 600 is as fine as I go. 

[chuck123wapati]

32 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

I started off looking for an oil stone for sharpening my new round knife (should arrive hopefully by tomorrow) and I'm totally confused by the vast choices that are available and I have no idea what to get.  In my company workshop (picture framing shop) we've had a couple of oil stones for probably 40-50 years.  They work fine for what we use them for.  But I want to equip myself with what I need to keep my leather cutting tools sharp which I'll keep at home where I do my leatherwork and sewing.

I guess I need something for getting a rough edge on a new blade in better shape and then something else for fine-tuning the edge and getting it razor sharp.  And a strop (which I've got ready) for polishing the edge.

I found Arkansas Oil Stones in medium, fine and extra fine grits (no actual grit value specified, but they recommend both the medium and extra fine) at Lee Valley tools.  Then I find diamond grit stones and also ceramic stones and even green silicon carbide.  Totally confusing.  I don't want to go overboard, but I want to learn how to and then maintain my leather cutting tools properly.

What would you suggest as a minimum to get me started?  Thanks very much.

Here are the two oil stones we have in our workshop... they are the only oil stones I have any experience with.

 

if your cutting tools are not a super hard steel then the Arkansas will work fine. if they are of a super hard steel then you will need diamond stones. Arkansas are great with oil, water can be used also. There are also Japanese type water stones that are awesome as well. Its mainly a matter of preference on oil or water.

 You should get a set of three at the least course medium and fine actual grit size doesn't matter because you will go beyond that when finish polishing i use various sandpapers for the finish sharpening and polish down to 2500 grit. Some folks go farther with the polishing compounds.

 The course should get used very little as it for creating the primary bevel, and fixing a badly worn blade or chipped blade the medium can be used for cutting the secondary bevel and removing the larger scratches on the primary and then the fine for the finishing the edges. After the edge is created then up keep is with your sandpapers and strop if that is what you prefer.

BTW the stone in the pic on the left is worn out! the one on the right can be fixed but sharpening with stones this bad will not be helpful in learning to sharpen anything. Keep your stones clean and flat by using the whole stone or as much as possible when sharpening and keep it clean with whichever lube you picked Water /oil

Edited September 16, 2021 by chuck123wapati

[MtlBiker]

@chuck123wapati Thank you for the good info! 

What's your opinion of this Japanese water King Water Stone Set?  That plus maybe a rougher sandpaper for initial forming and a strop for polishing?  When you say you use various sandpapers for the "finish sharpening" do you mean at the end after you've used a stone?  I think you told me in another thread that you don't use a strop for polishing.

Oh, I don't use the stones in the photo I posted, at least not in the last few years but they have been used in our shop for close to 50 years.  Various employees have used them for sharpening all kinds of things.  I have no intention of using them for my leather cutting tools.

45 minutes ago, paloma said:

blue slate

That's a kind of sharpening stone?

[paloma]

yes.

slates are one of the best stones for honing / sharpening cutting tools.

slates have a lot of grits different.

Edited September 16, 2021 by paloma

[MtlBiker]

26 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

I have a range of stones from coarse carborundum to some antiques used for razors. It depends what you need to do. The carborundum is used more for shaping. Arkansas stones do most of my preliminary sharpening, then the razor stones followed by the strop. I also keep sheets of wet'r'dry sand paper in various grits, but I don't go to the extreme that some here do. I think 600 is as fine as I go. 

All I will need to do is properly sharpen and care for my new George Barnsley round knife and skiving knife.  When you say 600 is as fine as you go, you're talking about sandpaper, right?  The stones are finer grit than that aren't they?  And just so I understand, shaping and preliminary sharpening are two different operations, right?  So after shaping you go to preliminary sharpening, and progress right up to finishing with the strop for polishing.

Thank you!

 

[chuck123wapati]

15 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

@chuck123wapati Thank you for the good info! 

What's your opinion of this Japanese water King Water Stone Set?  That plus maybe a rougher sandpaper for initial forming and a strop for polishing?  When you say you use various sandpapers for the "finish sharpening" do you mean at the end after you've used a stone?  I think you told me in another thread that you don't use a strop for polishing.

Oh, I don't use the stones in the photo I posted, at least not in the last few years but they have been used in our shop for close to 50 years.  Various employees have used them for sharpening all kinds of things.  I have no intention of using them for my leather cutting tools.

That's a kind of sharpening stone?

that is a nice set and would work well i'm sure. Yes i use a few different grits of sandpapers spray glued down to my pounding granite after the stones to get a good polished and fine edge. Usually double down meaning form say 400  to 800 then 1600 etc.  down to my 2500.  

[Squid61]

I don't go nuts with this.  I use a Norton dual sided stone for the shaping and rough sharpening, a Tri-Stone that has a medium and fine Arkansas, a fine Spyderco ceramic that I occasionally use more for polishing than sharpening and a strop.  Normal use both for leather and wood carving only requires stropping and occasional return to the Arkansas stones.  I have always used a push stroke on stones and could never get used to pulling a blade on wet or dry so I just don't use that method.  To old to retrain my muscle memory.

[mike02130]

I own and have tried most stones available.  Different stones for different steels.  The stones I use mostly are DMT diamond stones (not the mesh).  They are two sided--coarse/extra course and fine/extra fine.  I prefer the 6".  They are relatively inexpensive and can be used dry but I prefer water. The DMTs will work well on carbon and tool steels like D2 and the like.  The water stones and Arkansas and others aren't tough enough for D2.  After using the extra fine DMT I go to to a Spyderco white "Ultrafine" ceramic stone.  I use a piece of MDF with white compound for stropping the harder steels and green compound for carbon.  Go to bladeforums.com for the best information.  I own some fancy Japanese water stones but I only use them on my high carbon steel Japanese kitchen knives.  

[Scootch]

For sharpening my round knife I use a mouse pad atop a granite precision ground surface plate wit automotive sandpaper in the 400 to 600 grit range then strip with green rouge.  If you dont want a convex edge, skip the mouse pad and wet the sandpaper so it'll stick to the surface plate.

I find with stropping my tools seldom need real sharpening however I dont use them everyday.

I have a spyderco medium ceramic in my amazon cart but havent pulled the trigger yet.  They are supposed to be a good all around stone.

Scootch

[AzShooter]

I use a diamond 300 grit stone to start with, then go to 1000 grit for my head knife.  Then I strop it about 10 strokes.  If it won't cut 10 ounce leather with the first stroke I'm back to the diamond 1000 grit for 100 strokes.  

If still not sharp enough out comes my Arkansas set of medium, fine and extra fine that I bought from MidwayUSA.com.  

I use them on both my Head Knife and many small pocket style knives.s

Keep trying...I didn't get a good blade until just recently and I'm  70.

 

[Danne]

17 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

@chuck123wapati Thank you for the good info! 

What's your opinion of this Japanese water King Water Stone Set?  That plus maybe a rougher sandpaper for initial forming and a strop for polishing?  When you say you use various sandpapers for the "finish sharpening" do you mean at the end after you've used a stone?  I think you told me in another thread that you don't use a strop for polishing.

Oh, I don't use the stones in the photo I posted, at least not in the last few years but they have been used in our shop for close to 50 years.  Various employees have used them for sharpening all kinds of things.  I have no intention of using them for my leather cutting tools.

That's a kind of sharpening stone?

I have a King 1000/6000 and i'm not happy at all with that stone. It needs constantly flattening, and the worst part is that the 6000 side "clogs" up with metal instantly. 

But the stone you are linking looks like a premium version of their stones. Btw, I use wet and dry sand paper from Mirka 1000-2500 grit (and rougher grits if I need to) and finish with stropping on flat grain leather with green chrome oxide, and my knives are razor sharp.

[Samalan]

I use a 400 diamond 2" X 6" then white bar strop some folks say white bar is to course not for me, for me it's time my method is very fast and it would be rare to need anything sharper I use this method for wood carving tools, leather round knife, swivel knife, hunting and tactical knifes, Technique is always important always remember when you are sharpening you are shaping as well because you are removing metal all the time. as far as sharp go's I had a friend who was a woodworker like myself, one day he came over to my shop to see how the  carving job I was doing for him was coming along. He said he just bought a Tormack sharpening system said I really need to get one I told him that's ok I'm all set, my tools are sharp enough, as he was reaching across my bench to take  a tool from the tool roll I had out he said ya but how sharp can you keep all these things. Everyone who uses these "things"  knows you never cut yourself when using  one, it's when your reaching for one, next thing I know he's bleeding on everything yelling wholly shit those are f---king sharp.   I said yes very, and we laughed like hell, a few years back my good friend past away. He was a wonderful cabinet maker and Friend. Sorry about the story. but when I think sharp LOL I think of that day.

[jcuk]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:32 PM, Squid61 said:

I don't go nuts with this.  I use a Norton dual sided stone for the shaping and rough sharpening, a Tri-Stone that has a medium and fine Arkansas, a fine Spyderco ceramic that I occasionally use more for polishing than sharpening and a strop.  Normal use both for leather and wood carving only requires stropping and occasional return to the Arkansas stones.  I have always used a push stroke on stones and could never get used to pulling a blade on wet or dry so I just don't use that method.  To old to retrain my muscle memory.

Agreed don't over think it

Hope this helps

JCUK 

Edited September 17, 2021 by jcuk

[dikman]

To add something else to the mix I have a pair of paper sharpening wheels mounted on a grinder. One is embedded with fine grit, which does a good job of putting an edge on a blade and the other has fine rouge on it and hones to a very sharp edge. Some use wheels made from MDF to do the same thing. I have accumulated all sorts of sharpening gear over the years - grinders, belt grinders/sanders, a wet-wheel grinder, Arkansas stones, oil-stones - and have found the paper wheel system excellent for getting a fine edge quickly.

The only thing I haven't tried is Japanese water stones, they apparently work well but seem to wear quickly.

[Hardrada]

This is what I have: https://www.danswhetstone.com/product/bench-stones/

A Soft (medium) and a Fine (hard) Arkansas, in size 8 x 2 x 1/2 ". Bought them at Lee Valley, along with some honing oil (not the Dan's brand). They've worked fine for my round knife. I use the method described by Al Stohlman in his book.

[FrenchMich]

I definitively adopted DMT stones since 10 years. Very effective, good durability, always very flat, it's still the same set and I'm using it each day.
I have a black, blue, red and green with that and the strop, I do a perfect sharpening. The sharp of my tools is redoubtable

[MtlBiker]

9 hours ago, FrenchMich said:

I definitively adopted DMT stones since 10 years. Very effective, good durability, always very flat, it's still the same set and I'm using it each day.
I have a black, blue, red and green with that and the strop, I do a perfect sharpening. The sharp of my tools is redoubtable

DMT stones?  Are you talking about Dan's whetstone or something else?

I just received a set of Shapton Glass Stones... #320, #1000 and #4000.  They look really beautiful.  Now I just have to learn how to use them properly.

[MtlBiker]

On 9/17/2021 at 5:42 AM, Danne said:

I have a King 1000/6000 and i'm not happy at all with that stone. It needs constantly flattening, and the worst part is that the 6000 side "clogs" up with metal instantly. 

But the stone you are linking looks like a premium version of their stones. Btw, I use wet and dry sand paper from Mirka 1000-2500 grit (and rougher grits if I need to) and finish with stropping on flat grain leather with green chrome oxide, and my knives are razor sharp.

The King stone set arrived a couple of days ago.  They seem fine (says he of little experience).  I've only been trying the #400 so far, and learning how to properly shape my knives.  But it seems I'm going to have to be very careful to use the full surface of the stone because already I can feel where it's a little worn.  It might just need lots of flattening.

But I also ordered (and just received) a set of Shapton Glass Stones, #320, #1000 and #4000.  I'm going to keep the King set at my work (we can use them there) and take the Shaptons home where I do my sewing and leatherwork.  These look really really nice but I haven't tried them yet.

 

[Danne]

17 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

The King stone set arrived a couple of days ago.  They seem fine (says he of little experience).  I've only been trying the #400 so far, and learning how to properly shape my knives.  But it seems I'm going to have to be very careful to use the full surface of the stone because already I can feel where it's a little worn.  It might just need lots of flattening.

But I also ordered (and just received) a set of Shapton Glass Stones, #320, #1000 and #4000.  I'm going to keep the King set at my work (we can use them there) and take the Shaptons home where I do my sewing and leatherwork.  These look really really nice but I haven't tried them yet.

 

I have no experience with the #400 stone. And the stone I have might be a decent stone but maybe not suitable for the steel in my knives, hence the reason the 6000 side clogs up. 

I had to flatten my stone all the time, and if I didn't it took a lot of time to make it flat again.

That Shapton set seems like something that could be suitable for me also. 320 for reshaping an edge. 1000 and 4000 for regular sharpening.

[FrenchMich]

Those ones