Old Rivet Question

[JWheeler331]

Maybe this is the right place for this. 

Can someone tell me what kind of rivets or fastners these are? 

What would be the best way to remove them? 

I have this old shotgun shell belt that I want to restore by taking off the brass carriers and replacing them onto a new belt since this belt is not good anymore. 

Would I just carefully drill out the center of these? Obviously I do not want to hurt the brass shell carriers in any way. 

 

The fastners that are holding on the metal pieces are different than the ones that are holding on the billet for the belt part. 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by JWheeler331
added info.

[Dwight]

I would use a drill bit that is right at the diameter of the rivets in the top photo.

I would use a brand new one . . . super sharp . . . and I would not get in any kind of hurry at all.

You might even go in on the backside . . . use a drywall screw to keep it from turning . . . hold the drywall screw with a pair of pliers . . .  and I'd do this in a drill press if you have that option.

I've drilled out bunches of rivets from time to time . . . because of the dryness of the leather . . . it has probably shrunk . . . the rivet will spin if the drill big catches it . . . just be careful.

May God bless,

Dwight

[tsunkasapa]

Or a small grinder bit in a Dremel, from the back side.

[JWheeler331]

I’m impatient at times and when I posted this post I went to the bench and took a small drill bit and drilled out the front of the eyelets until it let go. Luckily this did not even mar the brass carriers. 
 

I’ll still need to figure out what the eyelet or grommet size is so I can look for something similar to replace them with. I have never used eyelets or grommets so I’m not familiar with their methods and sizes. 

[Spyros]

I mean you have to attach the carriers to the new belt somehow right?  Probably a belt eyelet, which looks like what this is, or even a cap rivet.

I'd just drill through the existing ones with a sharp drill bit, and if it happens to enlarge the hole on the carriers a little bit I'd just use a bigger eyelet.

[Handstitched]

I have had issues with  old tube rivets before on old leather repairs, projects etc. Depending on the job,a nice sharp drill can be used...carefully,  as already mentioned, but if you wish to speed things up a bit,  I have also used a pair of sharp wire cutters  , and  in this case , to get in between the shell holders and the belt  and cut them . It may take a bit of brute force ...and a few curse words, but they will cut. When you finally cut through, a piece  of the rivet might ' ping' across the work bench, so mind your eyes.  I have also noticed the using just the tips of the wire cutter blades and cutting the rivet about half way  does help a bit. Good luck. 

HS

[fredk]

I use small electrical side-cutters to crush the sides of the hollow rivet inwards. Often this works so I can pull the fitting off the leather quite easily. Or the side-cutters will be needed to hold the rivet and I drill the rivet. I usually manage to get the side-cutters inbetween the fitting and the strap, or between the peened over end of the rivet and the strap

[Handstitched]

Yep, that'll work  

My next purchase is a pair of good quality  high leverage side cutters, less brute force...and swearing  

HS

[JWheeler331]

Got them all off and straightened the ones that needed straightening. Some were bent up pretty bad. Got them where the will fit a shotgun shell properly again. 

Now I will get them cleaned up and tumbled and start the search for proper fitting eyelets. 

Once I am finished with the project I may do a complete write up on it. 

Thanks. 

[Tugadude]

Very cool project.  Glad you figured out a suitable method.  Make sure to post a pic of the finished belt!

[fredk]

On rebuilding' I would use brass double headed ready-rivets

[JWheeler331]

5 hours ago, fredk said:

On rebuilding' I would use brass double headed ready-rivets

My concern is that they will stick up too much and not allow the shells to go in without catching the lip of the rivet. 

5 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Very cool project.  Glad you figured out a suitable method.  Make sure to post a pic of the finished belt!

Will do. 

[chuck123wapati]

most look like eyelets, probably more heavy duty than modern ones. Friggin cool project indeed i love that kind of stuff.

[chuck123wapati]

6 minutes ago, JWheeler331 said:

My concern is that they will stick up too much and not allow the shells to go in without catching the lip of the rivet. 

Will do. 

maybe these would work 

https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/hollow-rivets/

[fredk]

2 hours ago, JWheeler331 said:

My concern is that they will stick up too much and not allow the shells to go in without catching the lip of the rivet. 

Smashed down tight the head of a ready-rivet would be no higher than what had been in. Plus the head would be a smoother surface than the edges of what had been there

[Davm]

I think you also posted this project on another site.  Now that I am looking at more detail, are they rivets or grommets used as rivets?  Such grommets were used back then- you'll see them once in a while for the belt holes for the tongue of the buckle.

[JWheeler331]

23 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

maybe these would work 

https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/hollow-rivets/

Thanks.

I will give it a look and see. 

The holes are 3/32 holes I believe and they will be going in leather that is about 8-9 oz or 3.9mm thick. 

The original belt was a little less thick but I am going back with what I have on hand already. 

4 hours ago, Davm said:

I think you also posted this project on another site.  Now that I am looking at more detail, are they rivets or grommets used as rivets?  Such grommets were used back then- you'll see them once in a while for the belt holes for the tongue of the buckle.

I did post somewhere else and ask about them. They may be grommets. 

[chiefjason]

On 10/7/2021 at 3:09 PM, JWheeler331 said:

My concern is that they will stick up too much and not allow the shells to go in without catching the lip of the rivet. 

Will do. 

Set the inside rivet on a flat, or as flat as possible, object.  When I set capped rivets inside a holster for a strap I hammer them flat on an anvil.  Not had an issue yet.  Or put the cup on the back of the belt and hammer the inside with the flat side of the setter.  

[JWheeler331]

Here is a link to the finished project. Thanks for any info you helped with. 

I hope that you will check out the link. 

JWheeler331: Pooler & Jones Boss Shotshell Cartridge Belt Restoration

 

 

[Handstitched]

You've done an excellent job restoring that, well done , love to see the old become new again  

I have had difficulties  in the past  trying to set rivets on ' round' projects . So on some projects I have used a small piece of steel pipe around the same size, fit the rivet post through the hole, , slide the pipe in gently,  put the cap on,  and use it as an anvil . 

HS

[JWheeler331]

4 hours ago, Handstitched said:

You've done an excellent job restoring that, well done , love to see the old become new again  

I have had difficulties  in the past  trying to set rivets on ' round' projects . So on some projects I have used a small piece of steel pipe around the same size, fit the rivet post through the hole, , slide the pipe in gently,  put the cap on,  and use it as an anvil . 

HS

Thank you. Good tip also. 

 

 

[HandyDave]

Great work on bringing a classic piece back to life. Id like to mention how i cut old rivets or messed up rivets. Sometimes i drill them out but i have found if you take a metal putty knife or even a cheap skiving knife. Thin it down and make it sharp. And you can slide it between most objects and rivet. Give it a smack with mallet and it slices right threw rivet. On something like your old belt this trick would have worked real good.

[Spyros]

On 10/11/2021 at 10:25 AM, JWheeler331 said:

Here is a link to the finished project. Thanks for any info you helped with. 

I hope that you will check out the link. 

JWheeler331: Pooler & Jones Boss Shotshell Cartridge Belt Restoration

 

 

Nice

Putting the article and the photos together looks as much work as the restoration itself!

[JWheeler331]

6 hours ago, Spyros said:

Nice

Putting the article and the photos together looks as much work as the restoration itself!

It was a lot of work also. Thanks for checking it out.