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Treesner

light duty cylinder arm machine

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20 hours ago, Treesner said:

I'll be sewing patches on hats, patching pants, modifying/prototyping small cordura bags/webbing, 

This changes to equation. There are different machines that are best suited to these jobs. One is the shoe and boot patcher and the other is a post bed machine.

A patcher is a Singer 29 or Adler 30 style machine that has a long tapered arm that resolves down to either 1 inch or 1.25 inches wide at the needle end. The material is pulled by the foot which you can rotate in 360 degrees. If you can fit the work over the arm you can sew round and oval patches, or any shape patch. The foot is controlled by butterfly tabs sticking out the underside of the head. The bobbins in the narrow version are extremely tiny and limited in capacity, while those in the wider nose are simply small in capacity. They are referred to as small or big bobbin patchers.

A post machine has a vertical arm that stands between 6 and 7 inches above the bed. Some have a roller foot, some a flat foot and others have walking feet. Some take a G bobbin, others an M bobbin. Pfaffs take a Pfaff bobbin. I prefer to use a post machine when sewing hats. They do ell on bags too. If you can fold the material out of the way you can sew a patch onto pants knees.

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20 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

This changes to equation. There are different machines that are best suited to these jobs. One is the shoe and boot patcher and the other is a post bed machine.

A patcher is a Singer 29 or Adler 30 style machine that has a long tapered arm that resolves down to either 1 inch or 1.25 inches wide at the needle end. The material is pulled by the foot which you can rotate in 360 degrees. If you can fit the work over the arm you can sew round and oval patches, or any shape patch. The foot is controlled by butterfly tabs sticking out the underside of the head. The bobbins in the narrow version are extremely tiny and limited in capacity, while those in the wider nose are simply small in capacity. They are referred to as small or big bobbin patchers.

A post machine has a vertical arm that stands between 6 and 7 inches above the bed. Some have a roller foot, some a flat foot and others have walking feet. Some take a G bobbin, others an M bobbin. Pfaffs take a Pfaff bobbin. I prefer to use a post machine when sewing hats. They do ell on bags too. If you can fold the material out of the way you can sew a patch onto pants knees.

yeah I just feel like a 29 or a post style would be to limited, patching pants isnt done a lot just sometimes where a cylinder would be a little nicer. mainly sewing leather, bags, patches on odd shape things so I think a cylinder arm is the most versital for the small shop. I'll get a flat bed machine at some point as well for more of the cordura style work think 

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:29 AM, dikman said:

Brian, that is very impressive! What size thread is that? You got more details - price, availability etc? I don't really need one but that's never stopped me before.:lol:

HI @dikman, Sorry for late answer mate ...The old computer s..t itself again as it does at times and as usual it was just needing the ram sticks cleaned up. Spent many hours getting a new one and files over blah blah:smashcomp:  Still a work in progress. $120au delivered and available in Australia at the moment to you . Just give Jess a call if you want to go ahead. I will do a separate post on these showing some more detail than the video shows. I would do it here but there is a fair bit and I don't want to overload with all the pictures and stuff.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 2:08 AM, MtlBiker said:

Thank you!  I'd watched the video twice and still didn't understand what the game changing "it" was.  Maybe I'm the only newbie here who didn't catch on right away, but it would have been helpful if he (or someone) had first outlined the problem/issue and then explained the solution.  This newbie thanks you.

I understand what you mean and I will do a separate post asap that will give a better and more full explanation of the advantages and once done I will put a link back here.

On 10/27/2021 at 7:29 AM, dikman said:

Brian, that is very impressive! What size thread is that? You got more details - price, availability etc? I don't really need one but that's never stopped me before.:lol:

HI @dikman, Sorry for late answer mate ...The old computer s..t itself again as it does at times and as usual it was just needing the ram sticks cleaned up. Spent many hours getting a new one and files over blah blah:smashcomp:  Still a work in progress. $120au delivered and available in Australia at the moment to you . Just give Jess a call if you want to go ahead. I will do a separate post on these showing some more detail than the video shows. I would do it here but there is a fair bit and I don't want to overload with all the pictures and stuff.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 2:08 AM, MtlBiker said:

Thank you!  I'd watched the video twice and still didn't understand what the game changing "it" was.  Maybe I'm the only newbie here who didn't catch on right away, but it would have been helpful if he (or someone) had first outlined the problem/issue and then explained the solution.  This newbie thanks you.

I understand what you mean and I will do a separate post asap that will give a better and more full explanation of the advantages and once done I will put a link back here.

 

On 10/28/2021 at 5:02 AM, Treesner said:

its probably one of those things where you need to own a heavy duty machine and try to sew thin stuff on it and fail. he mentions not being able to sew on the edge on his old one. would have been a better video to show him sewing that same material with the old setup to see how it fails 

Too true. My next post will try and convey better just that.

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2 hours ago, dikman said:

Thanks mate, for $120 I just have to have one!:lol:

I used mine today to sew in a zipper in a gaberdine jacket, using #92 thread and a #19 needle. Earlier, I sewed a quarter inch of veg-tan test strip with #277 thread and a #25 needle. I will be starting a new topic about this feed dog and throat plate when I have time to shoot a video.

I think that this topic, originally about light duty cylinder arm sewing machine recommendations, has lost its true north. I think we should refocus on helping the OP find his best machine for his type of work.

20211029_163430.jpg

20211029_163341.jpg

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1 minute ago, Wizcrafts said:

I used mine today to sew in a zipper in a gaberdine jacket, using #92 thread and a #19 needle. Earlier, I sewed a quarter inch of veg-tan test strip with #277 thread and a #25 needle. I will be starting a new topic about this feed dog and throat plate when I have time to shoot a video.

I think that this topic, originally about light duty cylinder arm sewing machine recommendations, has lost its true north. I think we should refocus on helping the OP find his best machine for his type of work.

I agree. I will post up a new video on it all going well sometime today. @Treesner after all of the info you have given I would be looking into The Cowboy CB 341 which has most of the capacities of the CB6900 but is more affordable. The 6900 can go a little thicker in thread and a little bit more in thickness but may be harder to get over there. Here is a video I loaded yesterday showing the quick table top attachment available to fit the 6900. I believe they will fit a 341 as well except that the threaded  holes may not be in the arm. There are a few other video's I have done on this machine if you want to check them out as well.

 

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so comparing these two machines which seem most recommended. artisan says that it does not need a gear reducer, but spec wise they all seem about the same.. 

any reason not to get one or the other?

 

1133080692_ScreenShot2021-11-09at2_22_56PM.thumb.png.959c87dfb92fc430d457a9ff237831ca.png

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Shame I could not find any video's on the Artisan 2618-1B. I would like to check out for certain the claim about not needing a speed reducer on it. When you are starting out being able to go as slow as you want is a real blessing compared to the motors I started off with. For any help sorting out bugs you can get plenty of help with the cb341 on this site but I can not say how much help you would get on the Artisan. I think if you check you can get the pedestal table with the cb341 as well for a bit extra.

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Looks like they are the same machines so question is how well is the machine setup with motor and how well it is adjusted by the dealer (sewn off and so forth) To be honest no matter what machine with what motor you buy I would always add a speed reducer. That is so much more comfortable.  Some motor may start super slow but often do not have much low speed torque. The speed reducer compensates this and the advantage of a speed reducer should not be underestimate IMO (adding torque & reducing sewing speed). I have one on ALL my machine tables. ALL - no matter the motor and no matter the machine - it´s just a lot more comfortable. My 2 cents.

 

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9 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Shame I could not find any video's on the Artisan 2618-1B. I would like to check out for certain the claim about not needing a speed reducer on it. When you are starting out being able to go as slow as you want is a real blessing compared to the motors I started off with. For any help sorting out bugs you can get plenty of help with the cb341 on this site but I can not say how much help you would get on the Artisan. I think if you check you can get the pedestal table with the cb341 as well for a bit extra.

I have 2 Artisan machines . in-house set-up . 'one with' reducer , and one 'without' speed reducer .

 When buying the Artisan machine with the spec's. that read 'without reducer' . That was also the 1st question I had, before I bought this last machine from them . So I called them and they reassured me that it not needed .
. All I can say is that I have Zero Complaints with their drive motors they brand and install that have No reducer . programmable, and It adjustable to go as slow as you choose . I was pleasantly surprised that Low torque power is there also . 

So here is 2 Pic's. of the Drive 'without reducer' .  pulley off the drive is a smaller 50mm Diam. .
I don't know the Servo manufacture that Artisan put there brand on but they seem to make good choice on there servo purchase .
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art.drive.jpg.09a8648649b7115bb6597773b8bf7d0f.jpg
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art.driver.jpg.19928e42ae2f1afb89caf5a73b22b075.jpg
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On 11/10/2021 at 12:43 PM, nylonRigging said:

I have 2 Artisan machines . in-house set-up . 'one with' reducer , and one 'without' speed reducer .

 When buying the Artisan machine with the spec's. that read 'without reducer' . That was also the 1st question I had, before I bought this last machine from them . So I called them and they reassured me that it not needed .
. All I can say is that I have Zero Complaints with their drive motors they brand and install that have No reducer . programmable, and It adjustable to go as slow as you choose . I was pleasantly surprised that Low torque power is there also . 

So here is 2 Pic's. of the Drive 'without reducer' .  pulley off the drive is a smaller 50mm Diam. .
I don't know the Servo manufacture that Artisan put there brand on but they seem to make good choice on there servo purchase .
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art.drive.jpg.09a8648649b7115bb6597773b8bf7d0f.jpg
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art.driver.jpg.19928e42ae2f1afb89caf5a73b22b075.jpg
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thats good to hear, I don't even think artisan offers a speed reducer unless an aftermarket one fits on it 

any complaints with the artisan machine or reason you went with them? are either of them the 2618-1B?

 

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On 10/29/2021 at 7:46 PM, Wizcrafts said:

I used mine today to sew in a zipper in a gaberdine jacket, using #92 thread and a #19 needle. 

 

Who sells #19 needles for the CB4500 ? Can't find them anywhere. I need them with an "S"  or LR point

Thanks 

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9 hours ago, Treesner said:

thats good to hear, I don't even think artisan offers a speed reducer unless an aftermarket one fits on it 

any complaints with the artisan machine or reason you went with them? are either of them the 2618-1B?

 

I think they/Artisan only put speed reduction pulley w/servo drive, on their heavier duty machines . The drive servo and pulley reduction on my heavy Artisan Cylinder Bed, is a torque brute .
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No , on the Artisan model 2618-1B . the pic is Drive on one of there dual drive Post Beds machines . but relevant because ( IMHO ) this Post Bed not heavy duty Artisan industrial machine, and this Servo Drive is probably same Servo used with their current lighter weight machines .
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Have no complaints yet , they have pretty good customer service also, easy to contact and talk over phone .
Have a crapload of hours on their 441 clone , and only had their Post Bed about a year . Both machines are pretty solid workers . And that is my biggest interest in any machine I buy .. It Has to be Dependable runner, or it going back out the door . Tables are set-up right and tight, and are good plywood/Lam. tops , ( No cheep Press board tops ) .

Have other machines, Singer, Consew, Mitsu, Juki ...etc.
( my ) main reasons for going with them/Artisan, is their competitively priced . W. Coast US established, with me up North in W. Oregon . They don't take your payment till the machine is shipped . Good CS . and  Trucking/Shipping has been under 200-$ usd up North to Oregon for me.
.

Edited by nylonRigging

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8 hours ago, LeatherLegion said:

Who sells #19 needles for the CB4500 ? Can't find them anywhere. I need them with an "S"  or LR point

Thanks 

Smallest size made for any leather points is NM 160/23 I believe. Would like to be proved wrong though.

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11 hours ago, LeatherLegion said:

Who sells #19 needles for the CB4500 ?

I would try:

i) Cowboy Dealer

ii) Aaron Martin in western Ontario as they maybe able to order ------ aaronmartin.com/product.php?cat_id=996&catview=20&submit=View ---- they list Schmetz in a 160 (#23)

iii) Cutex Sewing ------ cutexsewingsupplies.com/products/100-organ-7x3-dyx3-794-sewing-machine-needles-singer-consew-highlead?variant=32221430415413 --- they list Organ in a 120 (#19)

iv) Amazon ---------- amazon.com/7X3-Sewing-Machine-Needles-Highlead/dp/B01FGZ22X6?th=1--- they list Organ in a 120 (#19)

kgg

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3 hours ago, kgg said:

I would try:

 

All those needles are round point. I was hoping to retire the  the old 341 and just use the 4500 with smaller needles with an "S"  or "LR " point . 

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27 minutes ago, LeatherLegion said:

All those needles are round point.

I would still check with Aaron Martin in western Ontario as they do cater to the horse and tack people and mybe able to source them.

kgg

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6 hours ago, kgg said:

I would still check with Aaron Martin in western Ontario as they do cater to the horse and tack people and mybe able to source them.

kgg

I'll give them a call on Monday .

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I do find it odd that a lot of the heavy duty machines say their machines can take a #18 to XX needle or V69 to XXX thread but you can't readily get them.

kgg

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