Skiving machine (vacuum or not?)

[Danne]

So I have a hard time to decide if I should get a machine with a vacuum or not. And the reason is limited space. So I would appreciate some recommendations from those of you who have skiving machines. I will mainly use it with a rubber feed wheel to split leather for watch straps and for small things like wallets and card holders. (mostly combination tanned and chrome tanned, like Alran goat and Perlinger Noblessa and similar leather, but also some veg tan for watch straps. And exotics (Alligator/crocodile) This discussion is not meant to discuss how hard it is to split with a skiving machine, but if it's even an option with a machine without vacuum?

The thing is right now I have space to "fold in" a skiving machine without vacuum to the left of the white cabinet (first photo) In case I would go for a skiving machine with vacuum, it will be too wide, and I will have to remove the white cabinet (where I have my computer) and in that case build a frame for my table and skiving machine, and also move my computer. A lot of work with welding, transporting the frame for powder coating and such. And with a machine with vacuum I will have to use 3-phase 400V and it's not really a problem except if I would move to another apartment without incoming 3-phase in the apartment (but not that common here) , unless I buy a new machine which I could get as single phase 230V , but would prefer to buy a used one since I feel it's a waste of money to buy a new machine, when it's a quite simple machine to service if needed (Or I don't feel intimidated by it) 

 

My desk right now:

 

The plan if I will go with a machine with vacuum. (It will be either a Fortuna or a Fratelli Alberti.

 

[Arturomex]

I have a Techsew SK-4 machine without the vacuum suction. I now wish I'd purchased the setup with the suction.

Regards,

Arturo

[mike02130]

Well, "Wild Harry" swears by a vacuum.   I have one without a vacuum and I have no regrets.  Like you, I use it for small projects like wallets,  straps and purse gussets.  I will sometimes run a 3' x 5mm strap through it and split it down to 3mm or so to make a shoulder strap for a purse.  I'm familiar with your work and have read your posts and I don't think that you need to spend the extra money for a vacuum.  

[Danne]

3 hours ago, Arturomex said:

I have a Techsew SK-4 machine without the vacuum suction. I now wish I'd purchased the setup with the suction.

Regards,

Arturo

Can you elaborate why you wish you had a vacuum?

[Danne]

17 minutes ago, mike02130 said:

Well, "Wild Harry" swears by a vacuum.   I have one without a vacuum and I have no regrets.  Like you, I use it for small projects like wallets,  straps and purse gussets.  I will sometimes run a 3' x 5mm strap through it and split it down to 3mm or so to make a shoulder strap for a purse.  I'm familiar with your work and have read your posts and I don't think that you need to spend the extra money for a vacuum.  

I have talked to a couple of crafters today who use skiving machines without vacuum, and one of them have even compared with a machine with vacuum and he didn't feel like he needed a vacuum, and he is one of the best crafters out there and use his machine a lot. So I think I will start with a machine without vacuum, and since I will buy either a Fortuna or FAV, I will be able to sell it for around the same money I payed for it if I would feel the need to upgrade. 

Also, I can't really see how it would be rocket science to just 3d-print an attachment for vacuum if needed.  

[Spyros]

So to be clear, I don't know. I haven't even see such a machine up close.  But is the vacuum purely for better dust collection?  I mean how many handmade wallets are you going to make every day and how much leather dust is that going to produce?   

To be honest with you Danne, are you 100% sure that something like a Scharffix is not sufficient for your volume of work?   

[Danne]

23 minutes ago, Spyros said:

So to be clear, I don't know. I haven't even see such a machine up close.  But is the vacuum purely for better dust collection?  I mean how many handmade wallets are you going to make every day and how much leather dust is that going to produce?   

To be honest with you Danne, are you 100% sure that something like a Scharffix is not sufficient for your volume of work?   

Yes, I think it’s mainly for dust collection. At least according to those I talked too. And that will not be a problem, I mean I do this as a hobby. 

No a Scharffix will not work. For stiffer leather used for watch straps it would work. But I need to be able to split for example goat leather for wallets down to around 0.5mm. 

 

[mike02130]

1 hour ago, Danne said:

Yes, I think it’s mainly for dust collection

There's not much dust at all.  It is more for the scraps or splits from the leather.  Without a vacuum you need to reach into the bell and pull out what hasn't fallen out.

Say hej to my friend Erik Sörstedt if you see him.

[Spyros]

4 hours ago, Danne said:

Yes, I think it’s mainly for dust collection. At least according to those I talked too. And that will not be a problem, I mean I do this as a hobby. 

No a Scharffix will not work. For stiffer leather used for watch straps it would work. But I need to be able to split for example goat leather for wallets down to around 0.5mm. 

 

I wish you were close by to try mine.  And mind you, mine is not even the original, just a not-so-cheap copy.  I can tell you that it works with any thickness and any softness, with mm accuracy.  It's all about what type of blades you put in it (I'm buying Japanese "Feather" brand razor blades, which is absolutely and by far the sharpest thing I've ever seen in my life) In fact it works much better with thinner and softer leathers as you get to bend the leather around the roller which makes it easier to control. 

There's a bookbinder who uses it a lot, if you search for Scharffix on youtube you'll find him.  It doesn't get much thinner than the skiving these guys do in bookbinding.   

It is however not suitable for high volume, because you have to be focused all the time, one wrong move and it will absolutely go right through your leather in the blink of an eye.  It is however very suitable for low volume and for someone like you with the great dexterity and attention to detail that we can see in your work.  

The massive benefit for someone with a small space like you (and me) is that you use it and then you throw it in a drawer, it takes no room at all and you mount it on your table in seconds.  

And the cost of course.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Spyros

[BruceGibson]

I've never seen a need for a vac system for mine. 

[keithski122]

I have a global machine I use occasionally for auto upholstery(no vacuum). I don't think I need the vacuum, although I do use a rubber feed roller and have fitted an led light next to the bell so I can see if waste is caught up.

[RockyAussie]

On 10/28/2021 at 6:12 AM, Danne said:

I have talked to a couple of crafters today who use skiving machines without vacuum, and one of them have even compared with a machine with vacuum and he didn't feel like he needed a vacuum, and he is one of the best crafters out there and use his machine a lot. So I think I will start with a machine without vacuum, and since I will buy either a Fortuna or FAV, I will be able to sell it for around the same money I payed for it if I would feel the need to upgrade. 

Also, I can't really see how it would be rocket science to just 3d-print an attachment for vacuum if needed.  

@Danne For most production type leather work I know having a vacuum is best because I have had both. But it is not always that necessary sometimes because what the vacuum does so well is reduce considerably the problem with waste sticking to the feed wheel and coming back up to wreck the job you are feeding through. Now with watchband lengths on average you can get from one end to the other before the waste comes back up. On most saddlery leathers like what @BruceGibson is used to the leather does not stick so well to the feed wheel so not such a problem. Greasy waxy leather not so bad. Some leathers will catch almost always even with a vacuum but thankfully they are pretty rare. I will be doing a 3d print version sometime soon (Cowboy machine here waiting) but keep in mind that the end of the machine has to restrict the air flow enough to increase the flow to the extraction shute. This means an end cover of sorts as well as the catching tube. 

[Cumberland Highpower]

I have a FAV skiver with vacuum exactly as you pictured.   

I'd buy it if I were you.  I love mine.  I had an old USMC pluma that was around 100 years old for a long time.  Was in fantastic shape, but didn't come with a vacuum.  

With the FAV I never have to clean up anything.   It's amazing the shear amount of leather I empty out of the cabinet.  I only use it for making a lap on a single type of strap.  When I see the thousands of scraps in the cabinet, I wonder where the money from all those items went!  

Is your FAV having a motor that is dual voltage?   Mine is single phase 220v (USA)  but if you have a 3phase you can use a phase converter.   Check to see if yours is convertible between 440v and 220v.

[Cumberland Highpower]

Sometimes changing the type of feed wheel can reduce some of that problem.

I have both knurled steel and stone wheels.  I have stone on my machine now, it seems to work a bit better for what I'm cutting on mine.

 

 

[Dunluce]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:01 AM, Spyros said:

I wish you were close by to try mine.  And mind you, mine is not even the original, just a not-so-cheap copy.  I can tell you that it works with any thickness and any softness, with mm accuracy.  It's all about what type of blades you put in it (I'm buying Japanese "Feather" brand razor blades, which is absolutely and by far the sharpest thing I've ever seen in my life) In fact it works much better with thinner and softer leathers as you get to bend the leather around the roller which makes it easier to control. 

There's a bookbinder who uses it a lot, if you search for Scharffix on youtube you'll find him.  It doesn't get much thinner than the skiving these guys do in bookbinding.   

It is however not suitable for high volume, because you have to be focused all the time, one wrong move and it will absolutely go right through your leather in the blink of an eye.  It is however very suitable for low volume and for someone like you with the great dexterity and attention to detail that we can see in your work.  

The massive benefit for someone with a small space like you (and me) is that you use it and then you throw it in a drawer, it takes no room at all and you mount it on your table in seconds.  

And the cost of course.

Spyros,

I was interested in your reply. I remember looking at one of these some time ago but I heard they were not much good for softer leather or for skiving down to around 0.6 - 0.7mm. Perhaps they were not using sharp enough blades or changing them often enough. I am a 'table-top' leatherworker so something like this would be ideal for me if it works. I would mainly want to use it for items like wallets (skiving the edges or top of pockets for folding) and watch straps etc. Although it is cheaper than a skiving machine it still costs enough to be an expensive mistake (I have a couple of them already!). Does it really perform well enough for you and for what I would want?

[Spyros]

21 minutes ago, Dunluce said:

Spyros,

I was interested in your reply. I remember looking at one of these some time ago but I heard they were not much good for softer leather or for skiving down to around 0.6 - 0.7mm. Perhaps they were not using sharp enough blades or changing them often enough. I am a 'table-top' leatherworker so something like this would be ideal for me if it works. I would mainly want to use it for items like wallets (skiving the edges or top of pockets for folding) and watch straps etc. Although it is cheaper than a skiving machine it still costs enough to be an expensive mistake (I have a couple of them already!). Does it really perform well enough for you and for what I would want?

Oh, it absolutely works.  I use it all the time  mainly on bag gussets, but I've definitely done 0.6mm in the past (and thinner).  Maybe I didn't stress enough how sharp those "feather" blades are, they honestly look like they can split a hair sideways and they certainly have zero problems with any leather of any softness.  It does takes some practice and focus because like I said one wrong move and it will go right through everything (including finger), but once you get the hang of it it gets a lot done accurately and quickly.  There's a certain technique to it, you have to bend the leather around the roller and guide it to the blade with your thumb while pressing it down.  It's one of those things that once you make a start correctly then it just glides through.   It definitely excels with small things although I've also put some massive bag panels through it as well.

In terms of cost the one I bought on ebay was about AUD$200 which is around 100 quid, so really no comparison to a motorised skiving machine.

[Dunluce]

22 hours ago, Spyros said:

Oh, it absolutely works.  I use it all the time  mainly on bag gussets, but I've definitely done 0.6mm in the past (and thinner).  Maybe I didn't stress enough how sharp those "feather" blades are, they honestly look like they can split a hair sideways and they certainly have zero problems with any leather of any softness.  It does takes some practice and focus because like I said one wrong move and it will go right through everything (including finger), but once you get the hang of it it gets a lot done accurately and quickly.  There's a certain technique to it, you have to bend the leather around the roller and guide it to the blade with your thumb while pressing it down.  It's one of those things that once you make a start correctly then it just glides through.   It definitely excels with small things although I've also put some massive bag panels through it as well.

In terms of cost the one I bought on ebay was about AUD$200 which is around 100 quid, so really no comparison to a motorised skiving machine.

I think I may give it a go. Was the one you bought on eBay a cheaper replica version? I see the original costs about three times that.

[Spyros]

10 minutes ago, Dunluce said:

I think I may give it a go. Was the one you bought on eBay a cheaper replica version? I see the original costs about three times that.

Yep.  There must be some difference from the original, but I couldn't see it, therefore it doesn't exist :D

[Dunluce]

47 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Yep.  There must be some difference from the original, but I couldn't see it, therefore it doesn't exist :D

Okay. Thanks for your help.