stitching pony design questions

[dans79]

Even though the raw materials for my maul have arrived , it's still far too cold in the shop to even think about machining it.  Thus, I've been learning about stitching ponies as I know I will need one, and i have a few questions.

1.  how wide should the jaws be?  I've seen them as narrow as 2 inches and as wide as 8. Is it just personal preference?
2. what's with the 360 degree rotating base?  I understand being able to tilt forward & back for ergonomic reasons, but I don't get the rotation, nor have I seen someone actually using this feature.

[chuck123wapati]

I built one and here are my suggestions. Mine is 3" works fine. width is dependent upon what you make  and personal preference i think. Mine is made so i can sit on a chair and sit on the base to use it so its short not good ! it needs enough space lengthwise between the jaws for what you think you may be sewing. The top jaw angle is important because it needs to be angled enough so you can use your awl close to the jaws without hitting your hand or haft plus you need the clearance for sewing also. I would add the rotating base i have to turn my whole thing around or turn the work piece plus the old saying its better to have it and not need it...... lastly anything sticking out like the jaw tightening setup will catch your sewing thread every time so you have to figure that out as well... good luck and welcome to the more more things to make club.

There is a stitching pony pattern in  Stohlmans "the Art of Hand Sewing" also. 

[fredk]

44 minutes ago, dans79 said:

1.  how wide should the jaws be?  I've seen them as narrow as 2 inches and as wide as 8. Is it just personal preference?

Personal preference plus what you are making. My two have jaws about 3 or 4 inches long. Sometimes I need to clamp up a long piece of sewing work between two pieces of stick, each about 6 inches, to support it, then into the jaws. But the 3 or 4 inches or so is adequate for most jobs

 

46 minutes ago, dans79 said:

1.  
2. what's with the 360 degree rotating base?  I understand being able to tilt forward & back for ergonomic reasons, but I don't get the rotation, nor have I seen someone actually using this feature.

Not exactly used the 360, but 180, to turn the item still clamped up around to get to the other side without disturbing everything. Also useful for just turning at an angle to get a clearer view or something of one side of the work piece. Or to turn the head at an angle which suits your style of sewing. I think I usually use mine set to an angle of about 3 or 5 degrees to the left. Only one of my clamps swivels around. Most useful tho

[Klara]

Mine (one for the chair, to sit on the base) does not rotate and I never thought I needed the feature. The jaws are probably 2 or 3 inches wide - I just used what wood I had. If the jaws are narrower, you just need to move the piece more often. If they are too long, working might become uncomfortable  - I don't see myself bending over 20 cm jaws.

What is more important is the space between the jaws, both the opening and the height. The more space, the bigger the item you can sew. I put in the bolt too high because I was only thinking about dog collars at the time. When I wanted to make biggish bags, I first made a French-style saddler's clam...

 

[dans79]

27 minutes ago, Klara said:

What is more important is the space between the jaws, both the opening and the height. 

I planed on making mine the type thats sits on the floor,  you put your feed on. 

You do bring another question to mind, what's a good jaw opening distance?   

[Spyros]

I think the only limitation as to the width of the jaw is really your skills.  It's very hard to make a big jaw that is perfectly aligned and applies exactly the same pressure at both ends, especially a couple of years later, unless you're some master woodworker and your materials are completely stable. 

[dans79]

8 minutes ago, Spyros said:

unless you're some master woodworker and your materials are completely stable. 

I'm nowhere close to a master, but I've done paid work before.  This is a simple side table  a coworker commissioned me to make several years back.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by dans79

[dikman]

 

This may answer some of your questions.

[fredk]

1 hour ago, dans79 said:

 .. .  what's a good jaw opening distance?   

Depends on what you will be making; small items such as wallets, or even larger items such as shoulder bags, no more than about 2.5 to 3 inches will suffice

[Spyros]

43 minutes ago, dans79 said:

I'm nowhere close to a master, but I've done paid work before.  This is a simple side table  a coworker commissioned me to make several years back.

 

Thats beautiful

What I meant is, if you make a jaw that is even slightly askew because of wood movement or because of looseness the hinge or whatever reason, and leaves even a 1-2 mm gap at one end of the jaw, chances are you're never gonna use that end.  Because it's just not going to hold your piece as firmly at that end and it will start moving around as you're stitching it.  And the bigger the jaw, the bigger the chances of that happening, even if you're really good at woodworking (which you clearly are)

[Spyros]

With the opening of the jaw, I would say the same thing: the bigger you make the opening, the higher the chances that when it closes it will not land exactly straight and flat against the other jaw.  Like Fred said, no need for very wide openings anyway.

[dans79]

7 minutes ago, fredk said:

Depends on what you will be making; small items such as wallets, or even larger items such as shoulder bags, no more than about 2.5 to 3 inches will suffice

Sorry, I was referring to the distance you would expect the distance when closed. If I can get away  with it, i wasn't going to use a hinge, just the natural flex of the wood. Thus the total range of motion will be less.

Edited February 14, 2022 by dans79

[fredk]

Distance between jaws when closed, not holding anything = 0, a big fat zero, nada, nowt

Open to accept a small item such as a wallet, about 1 inch

For bigger items max = about 3 inches, 2.5 inches will do

[dans79]

11 minutes ago, fredk said:

Distance between jaws when closed, not holding anything = 0, a big fat zero, nada, nowt

that part i assumed.  :-)


ok, 2-1/2" or so will for sure require a hinge.

[Spyros]

Unless you find a really good hinge with tight tolerances, even better is to put a brass or steel rod through base of the opening jaw and let it pivot on it.

[tsunkasapa]

Here is one that I used to have, liked it a lot. But I can't seem to find a replacement. The picture should give you some ideas though.

[Klara]

10 hours ago, dans79 said:

.... If I can get away  with it, i wasn't going to use a hinge, just the natural flex of the wood. ....

That sounds to me more like a traditional English saddler's clam than a modern "everybody can make one" stitching pony. There's at least one video on YouTube on making one and plenty more on using them.

As you can see, the jaws are not wide at all and I'm sure there's a good reason for it.

 

 

[Klara]

10 hours ago, Spyros said:

Unless you find a really good hinge with tight tolerances, even better is to put a brass or steel rod through base of the opening jaw and let it pivot on it.

For the basic, easy-to-make stitching pony that doesn't matter. Because the wingnut on the bolt will clamp the workpiece, as long as the jaws are parallel. 

https://www.instructables.com/Simple-and-Cheap-Stitching-Pony/

For a French saddler's clam it seems more important, but I looked at one in a shop with a wooden hinge - and there was as much play between the jaws as with my cheap metal hinges. I guess it's my thigh that holds things together. 

The thing is, people seem to get carried away with tool quality, wanting only the best. Imho, a stitching pony needs to hold your workpiece securely without damaging it and it needs to be comfortable to use. That's all. It needn't be pretty, it needn't be impressive.

Unless of course, you want to make it so. Or if an ugly one will put you off leatherwork.  I, when I made mine, wanted to make the perfect dog collar, not the perfect stitching pony...

 

[mdawson]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:29 AM, dans79 said:

Even though the raw materials for my maul have arrived , it's still far too cold in the shop to even think about machining it.  Thus, I've been learning about stitching ponies as I know I will need one, and i have a few questions.

1.  how wide should the jaws be?  I've seen them as narrow as 2 inches and as wide as 8. Is it just personal preference?
2. what's with the 360 degree rotating base?  I understand being able to tilt forward & back for ergonomic reasons, but I don't get the rotation, nor have I seen someone actually using this feature.

Here's how I 'got around' the question of what size jaws, I simply made rotating / removable jaws. By backing off the screw they can be angled or rotated 90 to use the longer side or turned 180 to use a different jaw configuration. The basic jaw is 90mm wide, it's what I had in my shop.

At the moment I haven't 'configured' the bottom jaw as I haven't yet had a need for a different configuration jaw but the last photo shows a jaw from the prototype which has a notch cut in it to fit around a previously fitted snap etc or to set down very soft material within the notch for support while it is being stitched.

In the unlikely event I need something else I can always make up a new pair of jaws.

 

[Klara]

Good idea! Would you mind showing us the other side of the stitching pony?  I don't see how it is held together for clamping the workpiece...

[mdawson]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:04 PM, Klara said:

Good idea! Would you mind showing us the other side of the stitching pony?  I don't see how it is held together for clamping the workpiece...

Not quite sure what you're asking for, the tension adjustment is the square knob shown in the 3rd picture, the cam lever is only used to release and retension when moving the leather, here's a view through the 'arms' so you can see the alignment. Added a view of it folded, I designed it on the fly, if I build another I'd make the base longer than the jaws to protect them.

 

[Klara]

4 hours ago, mdawson said:

Not quite sure what you're asking for, the tension adjustment is the square knob shown in the 3rd picture, ....

Thanks for the picture, I didn't recognise the square knob as tension adjustment! Nor was I sure about the cam lever, because my design doesn't have one - I use a butterfly nut for both purposes. Which is slow in use, but it was the easiest version to make. 

[Tugadude]

I've made adjustments to my homemade stitching pony over time.  The one I built was based on a very basic design, similar to the Li'l Dude shown in a post above.

I got tired of the clamping mechanism and removed it, substituting a plastic "C" Clamp.  I saw it on an Ian Atkinson video.  Works just fine.  Then I came up my own solution and that is an elastic band, not a rubber band, but an elastic band like you'd see on clothing.  I just wrap it tightly around the verticals and then when I need to hold something I just pry the arms apart and insert the item and let go.  Done.  I can always go back to the "C" clamp if needed, but for most of the stuff I do the elastic band is just fine.

[toxo]

The most practical design I've seen clamped to the bench in such a way as to allow the whole thing to swivel around so it could be used around a foot above the bench or swiveled around so it could be used a foot below the bench like if you were seated or standing. Wish I could find it. The again, I just use a clamp on vice that sits on a ball joint.

[JamesR]

I used the metal components of a Jorgenson hand screw woodworking clamp.