1horsetown

Shorty is a chunka horse. After riding a very narrow horse for many years, he was an adjustment. He's just wide all over. His bridle has a 15" wedge to wedge browband measurement. I'll order the DL cards today. I'd like to have the measurements in hand before I talk to anyone seriously. It was a post by Jon Watsabaugh that popped up on a Google search that brought me here in the first place. I just couldn't believe there was a saddle maker that close to me. I will definitely talk to him if a 'hands on' session is necessary. The area I live in is still in the dark ages when it comes to horses. They're ignorant and they like it that way. If it's labelled a QH tree, it will fit ALL QH's. If it's labelled an Arab tree, it will fit ALL Arabs. A Haflinger? Who the heck rides anything but QHs? Not saying those trees don't fit some horses, but they aren't a magic bullet. I'm not finding much support locally. I don't believe I'm going to find what this horse needs in a mass produced tree. The tack shop with the most saddles available is about an hour and a half from me. By the time I drive back and forth with saddles that don't fit, I'll have half the cost of a custom saddle paid out in gas money and babysitters. When the temps go up next week I'll put the treeless on and try a sweat marks test. No plastic. I had wondered if it would help the results or hinder them. I was leaning towards hinder anyway. My treeless is lined with poly fleece, which is why I was thinking the plastic sheet. Okay, trying to move forward. thanks every one. K

Saddles are frustrating. Or I should say saddle FIT is frustrating. My old horse had a 5-1/2" gullet. He was a thrill to fit also. That's interesting about the different bars. I'm happy to have the input from this forum. The saddle makers I've talked to previous buy mass produced trees and know nothing about them except that you put leather on them. I'm learning alot here. My main obstacle is my location. I absolutely cannot get my horse to Montana, Idaho, Nevada, etc where most of the tree builders seem to reside. I could reasonably haul as far as Des Moines or some other place within 3 or 4 hours. Being a stay at home mom with pre-schoolers has it's limitations. Yes, Shorty presents some challenges. But he's a good horse and I enjoy him. I'd be okay with a saddle maker who decided against putting his mark on my saddle. I understand the need to protect their reputation. I'd be okay with a maker stamping the seat with "This saddle was made for Shorty. It will NOT fit your horse." Up front honesty. I don't think Shorty's build is all that different from many other Haffies. I will order a set of Dennis' cards. If nothing else, I'm curious to see how my horse sizes up. I've spent more than that out of curiousity. thanks Kelly

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that all horses have issues. When you get a different horse, you don't get no issues, you get different issues. The idea is to pick a horse with issues you can deal with. Some of the things you might consider issues, may not be to others. For what it's worth. Some pics of Shorty. I marked the back of the scapulas. They line up perfectly with the base of his mane. I also marked what I thought was the lowest point of his back. It's 11 inches from the base of the mane to the low point mark. Just to give you some scale. I cut down the pixels. I'm on dial-up and big files are a nightmare. I'm on my own with the horse, so he's not quite as square as I'd like, but he's close. There's no level concrete on our place. Anything less than 100 years old is built by the 'close enough, sorta-kinda' rule. His fronts are a bit lower than his rears, between an inch and 2. It's just a general idea of what he looks like. I rode Shorty today to see if I could get some pics of his sweat patterns, but it was, evidently, too nice a day to get a good sweat going. The temps will be in the 90's next week. I weight taped him today. He's right at 1050. He could lose a bit more, but he's not ridiculously heavy. I do agree that many saddle pads are made out of materials that breathe well enough that they could leave odd marks. They've come to the conclusion that backs should be ventilated. I'd also considered that. The dry areas could be the places with the greatest air movement. I'd still like to do the bareback pad experiment. I don't have a bareback pad. Do you think my treeless saddle would work? I'd also thought about putting plastic under it to limit air movement. Wouldn't do that for a long ride, but for a little lunging??? kelly

Since I had kids: If I need to remember it, I write it down and stick it to the fridge. It's been 10+ years since I've thought about this stuff. The trainer had some ideal of the rivets on the sides of the head and the lowest part of the seat and how they related to each other. You can't go by the height of the cantle, particularly on dressage saddles, because some of them are just plain ridiculous. My friends' mule NEVER sweats in those dry spots. They hauled her bosom buddy out one roasting hot day. She lost her mind and ran the fence. That mule was running with sweat every where but the spots that stayed dry under the saddle. The friend hauled this mule to WI to have one of those electronic pressure sensing pads used on the mule with her new saddle and the scan came back very good. There were a few white hairs in the dry areas for a couple of years, but they've since disappeared. The mule is a sorrel. The bareback pad to check the sweat patterns is an interesting thought. Might have to try that. I'll try riding with a looser cinch and see if that does anything. My last saddle slid all over. I got in the habit of really cinching up tight. I probably don't need to do that so much with this saddle. I know Shorty is built a little downhill. My mindset ,due to past experiences, is--make it level. Maybe I don't need to do it as long as the ground seat will give me the freedom to somewhat choose my position? Shorty's back doesn't look to have any unusual lumps, bumps, or bulges, at least to my inexperienced eye. Other than being wide, I don't think there's anything that unusual about it. My current saddle is the best match so far. I feel like I have a good secure, upright position and Shorty is moving better and behaving like he's happier than he's been. The last of his white hairs disappeared this spring. But the saddle was made by a co. that specializes in endurance saddles. It's lightweight, under 25#. They did what they could to make the saddle stronger, but it's NOT a roping saddle. I would like to do a Wade for my next saddle. It'll be my largest saddle expenditure probably of my lifetime. I'm trying to figure out what's do-able and what's not. kelly

My trainer wanted the seat parallel to the ground. You couldn't post properly unless the position was exact. It had nothing to do with the position of the saddle in relation to the horse. Consistent sweat marks, to me, would be no dry spots. Shorty gets them in the same place every time. They are very similar to the dry spots from the previous saddle, which is why I can't really tell if they are new or old. kelly

I've had Shorty about 3 years. Before that I had a 2 Eyed Jack gelding that was pretty thoroughbredish. (read: wide as a picket fence and a colossal set of withers.) Cinches were kinda decorative on Roc. You didn't need one to keep the saddle on. But during the 20+ years I had Roc I did over 8 years of dressage. English riders in general and my trainer in particular are obsessed with 'leveling the saddle'. Roc was pretty level, but we had to pad out his withers because there didn't seem to be a saddle in my price range that worked with his build. Custom english saddles can cost more than custom western saddles. I've fought with saddle fit on Shorty as long as I've had him. I started with an Arab barred saddle that left dry spots and migrated to a treeless for a bit. I used a draft barred slick fork for a while. Shorty was morbidly obese when I got him and it took a while to get him trim (I took 300# off him). Haffies have the digestive integrity of a cockroach, you don't feed them like other horses. The draft saddle fit pretty good til Shorty lost weight and then it left dry spots on both sides of the spine. The draft saddle made me tip forward, so it probably made the situation worse. I also had to see the chiro after each ride. The current saddle still has inconsistent sweat patterns, but I don't know if it's damage from previous saddles or if it's this saddle. They are in the same places. I moved the rigging back to the 3/4 position the other night, but haven't worked up enough of a sweat to know if the pattern has changed. Could the rigging be causing some of the problem? The cinch looks better placed now that it's moved back. This saddle really helps me sit up, so I feel like I'm sitting properly. Shorty's 'saddling behaviors' have disappeared and he moves out better than he has since I've had him. So I know the situation is improved. So....in conclusion. I'm seeing inconsistent patterns, but I'm not sure if they're old saddle fit issues still showing or current issues. A friend of mine has a mule that lived with terrible saddle fit for about a year and even though they have corrected the fit, the mule's back is too damaged to sweat consistently, even 4 years later. AND.......I've got a 'level the saddle' hangover from my dressage days that's maybe making me over thinking this. I know just enough about saddle fit to be dangerous. kelly

My current saddle, with a 3/4" wool felt pad and a mohair cinch, stays put. Mounting, dismounting, small jumps, dragging big fence posts, etc. He's got some wither to work with. I dragged a 100# fence post all over the property last night and the saddle never budged. If I try to add something to the pad to lift the front a little we get into 'greased pig' territory. It's like trying to wear 6 pairs of socks with your favorite boots, though. They just don't fit like they were intended to. Which is why I'm wondering about a build up. If it's built into the saddle, it wouldn't do the 'greased pig' thing. Shorty isn't terribly downhill, I just want him to be comfortable. This is mostly an exploration of what is possible to that end. Haffies are pretty normally still rideable into their 30's. Shorty is 10. If there's no chance of the saddle fitting another horse, I'd happily toss it into the same hole as the horse (when the time comes). I have to admit, I'm pretty hooked on Haffies. The next horse will probably be a Haffie too, hopefully from the same bloodline. I plan on having this horse til it's time to plant him. Haflingers were developed by the Austrian military in the 1800's. They wanted a military use horse, so they designed one. Haffies are a cross between an Arab stallion named Folie and Austrian draft mares, the more refined the better. The result was kind of the Austrian answer to the American Morgan. Big enough to ride, nice enough to drive, heavy enough to pull, agile enough to pack supplies through the Alps, and still gentle enough to be a family horse. All Haffies are half Folie and half draft. Alot of them do drive, but more of them are ridden these days. We have no idea how Shorty came out looking like he does. No other horse in his family has his build. The bulldog build is common,but is unusual for his family tree. All Haffies are DNA tested, so we know who his parents are. He has 16 FULL brothers and sisters. His dam and sire are in their mid/upper 20's and still going strong. You've given me some things to think about. Thanks Kelly

I stumbled across this forum a couple of weeks ago in my attempt to research saddle trees and have been very impressed with the knowledge base represented here. I have some questions that I'd like to ask. I have a Haflinger. Think rather short, extreme bulldog type. 13HH and 8 hands wide. He's the gamest horse I've ever ridden. Excellent brain and cute personality. His conformation challenge is that he's built a little down hill. Not tragically, but somewhat. I read somewhere (ages ago) that a build-up can be constructed into a tree. I'd like to level up the saddle around an inch, maybe a hair more. I'm currently using a saddle made by an endurance type saddle maker. It seems to fit my guy pretty well, but I keep thinking that some things would be easier for him if the balance was shifted. I've tried a couple of different front lift pads, but they just won't work for real life riding. What wither this horse has completely disappears and ,all of a sudden, I'm sitting on a greased pig. The saddle is completely lost. And let me tell you, you look totally ridiculous using a mounting block to get on a 13HH horse!! I have the one horse. I will keep the one horse. I'm a one horse at a time person. I'm willing to spend the money to make this one happy/comfortable. I'm currently obsessed with Extreme/Ultimate Trail Challenges. I'm taking roping lessons and would like to do Ranch Horse Versatility in the future. I hang out with a very traditional crowd, so I'm thinking Wade. So.........What can be done for this situation? Seat alterations? Build up? thanks in advance for your input. Kelly and Shorty in SW Iowa.