JPH

Hello: Well like I said I am too chea... uh...furgal to spend all that much of my hard earned filthy lucre to put out 16 to 18 a quart6 when I can make a gallon for the same amount of cash... Also I run through anywhere from a quart to a half gallon every two weeks as it doesn't take long to go through a whole lot of dye when you are making sword sheaths and larger pieces. I am a very "prolific" maker..I put more "steel out" in a month than most other makers do in a year. Couple that up with the dyed bone and that all adds up quick to a lot of dye. I might not know what I am doing leatherworking wise but I do run through a lot of leather, and it needs dyed... I simply mix it up, wear the gloves and dye away. I was just curious if anyone else was mixing up their own... Well I am back to work..got alot to do today...maybe I will post the latest once I get the sheaths done... JPH

Peter: The MSDS info that comes with the dyestuffs I use basically say not to eat them and to advoid breathing the dust..other than that you simply handle them like you would any other denatured alcohol stain...at least that is what I was told by my "wood worker connection".. JPH

Scott: Ok over the years I have tried to make my own stains from everything from ground up black walnut husks (the leather like skin of the nut..what a mess but boy did it stain) to rusty steel wool to just about every olde tyme formula/recipe I could find..Most worked OK..some worked great others didn't work well at all. About 6 years ago I "discovered" via a dear friend of mine the world of "wood stains". I was amazed at the colour variations you can get in the ready made powers for water, oil or alcohol based stains. VERY resonable in price...with the most expensive, the oil based stains costing approx 25 US a gallon depending upon the oil you use... Being the paranoid olde farte that I am about rust (after all it is an "instant product"..as far as carbon steels go..all you need to do is add water..) I settled on the alcohol based dyestuffs and just mix my own..cost me like 12 to 16 dollars a gallon depending on the price of the actual dyestuffs and the going rate for the alcohol...MUCH less than buying the "ready mixed" stuff..plus you can mix up colours that you cannot readily get other places by experimenting and mixing the dyestuff powders. Plus there are dozens and dozens of colours of ready made powders if you just want to go "off the rack"... I have gotten pretty good using these to "fossilize" bone..especially my (in)famous "Bovine Ivory" that people just drool over... I will probably never go back to buying ready mixed dyes because these work so NICE and well I am a chea....no um....FRUGAL..yeah that's the word..frugal old man stuck in my ways... Oh..thank you for ther kind words in regards to my books... Hope this helps... JPH

Hello: I hope no one minds a total neophyte interjecting here...but why not simply mix you own dyes?? I mean I have been doing that from like 30 years now...talk about cost effective (make that cheap...) and you can mix custom colours as well.. Just a thought.... JPH

Art I am doing much better thanI was and I am no loger ashamed of what my leather work looks like..the hints that yorself and Bill gave really helped...THe burnishing and sealing the edges were the biggest help and after experimenting with several different finishes I have settled on that nutral tan kote...it gives me the right anont of "sheen" that I am looking for.. In the next few days i am finishing up another dozen or so blades which will need leather (one of which is a realy PITA to figure out a sheath for so watch out I will be asking for ideas on that one..) and once I get these next batch of sheaths done I will post a photo or three to show you what's transpired.. I wold like to publicly say THANK YOU to you and everyone else who have been so kind as to help out a ham handed hammerhead such as myself.. As it is my leatherwork is 10 times better than it was... Jim

Hello: OK I think I got it figured out.. Now please let me know if I a doing something really dumb..here's what I am doing.. First, I maked the sheath, mostly these are welted, then sewn together and the edges and all are smoothed out on a belt grinder uding a well worn 80 grit belt..this keaves a really fuzzy edge. Next I dye using my own dye mixes, let dry and then buff off the "dust" by hand. Now I use to aply my wax/oil mix hot and the bake it in, buff it off and letr it cool and they were done. Now I chaged this a bit...instead after I do the dye, I edge it using the same beeswax/oil mix (but this time its "cold") using my burnishing wheels, this leaves a much smoother edge..then I hand rub in the same beeswax/oil mix, this is more of a paste when "solid".. I rub that in by hand (one or two applications works well) and it looks pretty good after that.. I then edge with edge coat, let that dry and after that apply a coat of that Tan-Kote, I then smooth/even that out with a soft cloth and when it dries it's done. So is this OK to do it this way?? I mean the sheaths look 10 times better and much more "finished" than the way I was doing them before I started discussing this with you fine folks... Needles to say I am very happy and now after I get use to doing this for a while I will be moving on to something like adding contrasting overlays to dress these up a lit.. I am not all that embarrassed by my leather work any more..Granted it's nothing to write home about but still it is now 10 times better than it was... THANK YOU to all who helped me with this..so now I get to figure out where to go from here.... JPH

Kate: The "spit shine" that you mentioned takes about 1 to 2 hours to do right..I know that from experience (I recently retired from the NANG a year ago this August with 32 years service and I was a BIG suporter of "starch and spitshine" on my troops)... I do sheaths by the dozens..an average run is between 24 and 36 at a time and well, it will simply take too long to do a shine like that on that many pieces. I am looking for something that I can apply that will be a bit more lusterous and will at least be water resistant if someone gets caught out in the rain... I was thinking about future floor wax...It works on boots OK..(the spit shine mentioned above was "sealed" with this stuff..at least us officers used it for that purpose) so maybe it would work on sheaths?? I can't see any reason why it wouldn't but it's not very "flexible" and it does "chip off" a bit.... JPH

Hello: Ok I got the edgeing pretty much under control and things are moving alonmg well on that...I wish to thank Art and Bill for the help with that subject so it it now onto finishes.. I am using 5 to 7 oz veg tanned leather, dying it with alcohol based annaline dyes, letting that dry, buffing off the "dust" and now what?? I have been using a mixture of beeswax, neetsfoot oil and ballistol, applied hot (melted) and then "baked in" at 200 degrees, rubbed out after the baking. Now this leaves for a really nice, "soft" finish with a matte surface, but I want something with a bit more "shine" to it..I have tried the Tandy leather finish (that "sheen" stuff that looks like milk) but it didn;t do what I was looking for. I need at least a finish that will give the "shine" and at least be water resistant.. Any ideas?? Thanks all.... JPH

Bill, Art: Oik I gave the hardwood a try, had some ash I had laying about and cut some different radii U grooves in it...sanded it down smooth using emory paper on a round file and waxed the beegeezus out of it using beeswax...then I burnished the wood/wax with a piece of mild steel..heating it all up until it was smoking a bit and the wood got a bit singed... And guess what???..it works...takes about a minute to burnish the edges and I am not using any water at all..just daub on some beeswax and run the edge around the grooved mandrel... leaves a very smooth egde...I am very pleased... On the water..I am very paranoid about using any water of these as high carbon steel is instant rust..just add water... So the less moitsure the better if you ask me.. THANK YOU....this is one thing down and a whole lot more to go...THe next step I think will be finishes... THANK YOU once again.. In case you are curious about my metalwork...here's a C/U of a three core serpent pattern composite blade a'la 4th Cent AD... http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/Jh...s1/MVC-001F.jpg Now I get to make a sheath for this one later this week... JPH

Art: Ok I gave it a go and well it took darn near forever to get the edges smoothed/burnished by hand.. I make sheaths by the dozen and this is really adding up to the time...sooooooo.. I was thinking that if I was to turn a wheel, say out of 1018/A-36 ...about 8" in diameter, put a nice U shaped groove in it..somewhat shallow but strill a U and attach that to say a 1650 or so RPM motor...that should work shouldn't it to burnish?? I need to cut down on the time spent on these...and this might be a way to do that. spending 10 minutes on a sheath to burnish doesn't sound like a long time but when you have 30 or 40 to do...it adds up... JPH

Art: THANK YOU....I will give that a go this afternoon...now that gum trag..what does that do actually??? JPH

Hello again: Ok I got a few made up and sewn and all..I haven't slicked the edge..just evened them up on the belt grinder and now they are a tad bit "furry" or "fuzzy" looking... Now the question is on the slicking..I do this with the leather MOIST..NOT wet just MOIST correct?? And then I rub these to smooth it out and "Burnish" the leather?? If so..what prevents the leather from going back to being fuzzy when I re-dye it or do I have to re-dye?? I am a bit lost here... I know PITA questions but I don't know...the books/guides I have read do have some conflucting information so I am thinking that there are a few ways to do this?? JPH

Hello: Ok..let me make sure I get this straight... I edge BEFORE I sew or AFTER? Like I said I glue everything up..and on the welt sheaths I then smooth it all nice and even on a belt grinder, then I run them through my Tippman to sew them up.. So it's round the edges and get those selaed and burnished before I sew?? I know this is really a square nut question but I really don't know... I will be doing a few sheaths this weekend and I would like to give these suggestions a go...Once I get the edge problem licked I will be thinking about finish...I am OK dye wise I think. Oh..you ever mix any of your own dyes?? JPH

Art: Ok on the edger..how thick of a piece will these things handle?? I mean some of the sheath edges are about 5/8" to 3/4" thick... JPH

Art: Ok.... Here's what I am doing to give you an idea as to what is happening.. I make the sheah..I glue it up..smooth everything even on my grinders...burnich the edges on a dull belt then sew everything on my Tippman...After it is sewed all together it's dyed. I mix my own annaline dyes (I use alcohol based dyestuffs) and I just "dunk" the whole thing in the gallon or so vat...Gets nice and even that way... I let that dry usually overnight, buff off the "dust" then seal, rubb if off again and it's done... I want something that will make for a "smoother" and "sealed" edge...sorta like on a pair of boots?? Now I have another stupid question...what's an edger?? What does it do?? Ok I admit I am not a leatherworker..I am a blacksmith...I do OK with metals..but leather is all new to me really... JPH