Zen Diesel

Hello All, I have been trying to get to the Joseph Dixon website for about a week or so now. The website is really broken now all of the links outside of the page you land on are now broken. So in my attempt to use a different channel to reach them I found a webpage indicating that they have folded as of this year. I checked the forums for other topics to see if this has been covered. I did not find anything, but the search engine is kind of weak so forgive me if this has been inquired about already. Does anyone have any additional information / confirmation of Joseph Dixon UK going out of business? Thanks, ZD

Splitting hairs really on the counterfeit vs replica bit. Most countries have laws for counterfeiting and a licensing process for replicas. I am not going to get sucked into a battle of semantics. The shape of an item if it is registered is part of an items copyright. So you cannot make something that is within a similar shape of something else even down to the stitch count that is trademark or copyrighted. That is the whole point of those protections. As far as counterfeits in China its impossible to stop because a fair amount of it is supported by the government. So much so that Chevy designed a car called the Cherry for the Chinese market and worked to promote it in the country once the Chinese had the car they copied it and produced it in China cheaper. So good luck getting the Chinese court system to rule against a Chinese manufacturer. You are spitting in the wind on that. Neither Microsoft, nor Chevy nor BMI nor ASCAP has been able to stop counterfeiting in China so how is a a handbag maker going to win? Its like whack a mole. I did a search on the owner of this site and they have 10 others just like it currently registered. Finally you can get those logos for a website anywhere, but just for giggles I searched the BBB for a rating on this retailer and instead came up with this article: http://www.bbb.org/stlouis/migration/bbb-news-releases/2013/12/websites-lure-holiday-shoppers-to-buy-counterfeit-designer-goods-bbb-warns/ The pictures on that website are probably of real Hermes bags, but what arrives is not going to be what is in the picture. Caveat Emptor. People who buy counterfeit goods are really only ripping themselves off because they are paying good money for something that can't possibly be made of the same materials or build quality. A fake Rolex or kit car Hummer H1 on a Suburban Chassis is not the same thing even if its looks really similar. Alas we have drifted from the OP's original question so I am not going to comment any further if you want to continue we can start a new topic or go PM. This post approved by BBB, Trustwave Signed and VeriSign Trusted!

This is a company that makes counterfeit bags. They are honest about it at least. More honest than the purchasers of these bags are. The website is hosted in the US but the owner is in China.

Okay I looked into this further. I did consult my friend who works in copyright law. So here is his opinion. First I am going to give a quick disclaimer. I am not a lawyer and I am not pretending to be one. Any information given is an opinion and not legal advice. If you decide to take on a project like this and you want peace of mind hire a lawyer. Personally if something comes up like this for me, this is generally what I will be doing. 2 questions. Q: Can i take a LV bag that I own, turn it into something else and sell it? A: You will likely get sued if this is your business model. Q: If a customer owns the LV bag and wants me to modify it into something else would this be problematic? A: Generally once a thing is purchased the trademark holder loses any right to control the good thereafter. So the short answer is that so long as you are modifying a good that a customer owns and not manufacturing goods looking for a buyer then you are within the bounds of the law. The legal technicality is to have your customer purchase the genuine article (to avoid counterfeiting and because fake goods are cruddy practice) and to charge for your time and experience and not those materials. LV cannot tell you what you can or cannot do with property you own (so long as you do not sell it after you make it) and they cannot tell your customer what they can have you as the leathercrafter to do.

Not to be argumentative, but I have reached out to one of my lawyer friends who deals in copyright cases. I am truly curious now. As far as reproducing / counterfeiting Barney products. Well serves her right, when you blatantly go out and steals someone's design and don't have an agreement and don't pay licensing. Then you have to be willing to pay the price. In my mind the difference here is not that you are producing unlicensed copies of copyright / trademarked works. But rather you are taking the elements of one thing and making them into something new, as long as you are not doing some sort of elaborate counterfeit scheme I don't think those laws should apply. Finally I would like to end with I think that if you are willing to pay a craftsperson to ply their trade and make something custom that, the very act of the thing would classify it as art. A limited run of something vs. a sweatshop in a developing nation pumping out low or high quality counterfeits are not the same in my mind and should not be treated the same way.

I am not a lawyer, but i would like to throw my .02 in the bucket on this issue. I do not think it is a violation of copyright or trademark to take LV leather and make it into whatever you want. First off if it is the genuine article, LV has already made their money off of it. Once the item becomes mine I can do with it as I please. I am not leasing a bag from LV, I am buying it. Because a name or trademark is stamped all over something does not give the creator of that trademark license to tell people how to use it. People repurpose material all the time to make new items. So long as you are not representing the item as something that is made by the original manufacturer and you are not making counterfeits of something and trying to pass it off as the genuine article then I cannot see how LV or anyone else has a say in what you do with your personal property or the personal property of a paying client. Apple tried to pull a similar move with iPhones / iPads and other IOS devices. They claimed that jailbreaking / opening the software in such a way that you can make changes to the your device that are not approved by Apple was a violation of their copyright. The courts held otherwise. In short stating that you cannot tell someone what they can do with something that they own. Could you imagine Ford for coming after a car owner because they painted their car a different color than the factory approved colors or converted the car from a hardtop to a roadster? I hold issue with anyone telling me how I can use a certain thing that I purchased from them. If I want to cut a LV duffle in half roll the edges and turn it into a flower pot and sell it then I should be able to maintain that right because it is now a new object made from materials that I owned. I am not infringing on the copyright or design and I certainly should not need a license for that or permission. You can't market the trademark of an unlicensed product but you can certainly use whatever you have to make whatever you want. So you cannot say 'LV brand holster'. Because you don't have a license from LV, but you could say holster made with repurposed LV leather. I can still respect another person's work but decided that I would like to change it to suite my needs without the worry of being sued into oblivion. So I think this falls squarely in the fair use category. AFAIK LV doesn't make holsters or hold patents on certain designs. So keeping this in mind and with all due respect to LV I don't think there is anything they can do to stop you from recycling or reusing materials. I don't think there is any law that says manufacturers of goods must only use virgin materials. But I could be wrong. In the grand scheme of things, is LV going to come after a small time leatherworker? Probably not, but should you manage to blip on their radar you may get a cease and desist letter from their legal department. However if you aren't breaking any laws it may be likely too expensive for them to pursue a full blown lawsuit especially for a limited run of itmes. Ultimately I would much rather see good old used material turned into something new and used than thrown away or left to rot because it has fallen out of fashion.

Please add me to the Adult section as well.

Greetings, This is my semi-quick intro. 30 something male from the Maryland. Most of my experience with leather has come from prefab kits (gloves, moccasins, bags, bracelets, etc...) that I have done over the years from my youth to currently. I am what is called a "Maker" / "Hacker", which is a fancy way of saying I like to build and modify stuff. I have come across the majority of my skills as engineer / builder / technician for the entertainment industry (mostly live shows, but tv and movies as well). I am a collector of skills. I sharpen my skills by making things and asking questions when I get stuck. I promise to search the archives first but if I need further clarification I will post so please be patient with me. I have wanted to get more into leathercraft for many years. I have collected random bits and bobs of leather and remnants and kits I have yet to do. I only recently discovered Tandy Leather. The bigger bonus was that I discovered that one was about an hour drive from my home. Armed with this knowledge and my bank card I have spent a small fortune ramping up my specialty tools and materials for bigger projects that I have been dreaming about. I am happy to be in the company of and to take advantage of the vast knowledge of master leather workers. I guess you could say I am awl in. BTW I should mention Ian Atkinson of Leodis Leather Youtube channel is how I discovered this forum. His and Nigel Armitage of Nigel Armitage Leather Youtube channels have really spurned me forward to pursue this as more than a casual interest. so bravo gentlemen. Regards, ZD