Vinculus
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Posts posted by Vinculus
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Okay, then I’ll probably just buy the one you linked to on the German eBay page. The new Omron 0.75KW is €175 locally, so I might as well save a few bucks. Thanks a lot for all the help!
Wish the VFDs were a bit more bare bones with not as many settings and the digital menus though. Plug and play is my kinda deal, haha.
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Thanks for lending me some grace, haha. And yeah I particularly would like to avoid the ever-so-trusty servo motors because of the torque issue.
I think I changed my link after you clicked it. I actually found an Omron (well actually Yaskawa) locally. If you could take a look at the updated link, think that would work?
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I see. How about the this? I can get that locally. I feel like an idiot since I don't know anything about these things.
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26 minutes ago, gigi said:@VinculusThe way I see the things is: with a capacitor you are using just one phase instead of three, so you have roughly 1/3 of the power coming to the motor. Using a variable frequency drive even with an old clutch motor works perfect for me. I have that installed for years on a leather sewing machine (working mostly at low speed) and never had any over-heating issues.
But if you are not a trained electrician you can ask one for help.
Got it. Could you link me to an affordable VFD on ebay (from China I guess) that would work? Something like this maybe? I have no idea how to hook the motor up to it though, but that can be solved.
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54 minutes ago, Constabulary said:$100 just for the wiring? WOW
Can you post a picture of the wiring he did in the motor junction box? Hope he did not forget to install the capacitor.
Yeah he was asking 150 initially.
I didn’t take a picture of the new wiring. He changed it from star to delta if I remember correctly. We did a test where he just wired the new mains with a single phase plug right to the motor to see how it ran, plus the capacitor. It ran continually like it’s supposed to do, but got hardly any more torque or speed when stepping on the “gas”.
Edit: he wired it back to original and I tested it with the 380V connection. Ran like a dream with tons of power. Seems like this motor just wasn’t a good candidate for rewiring.
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Disregard the above. I had an electrician rewire it to 220V and the motor ended up not having enough power to even drive the stitcher with no material to stitch. That was $100 wasted. Guess I’ll just have to get a new 220V motor.
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Alright, so I bought a 25 uf capacitor and a new single phase power cord. Here are some pictures:
That's the internals of the motor. The two loose wires come from the capacitor. Which wires should be moved and attached where? This seems simple enough.
This is the rotation direction I need.
The motor wires lead to this. The cable on the right comes from the motor. It then goes into the power switch:
The cable on the right is for the motor. This is where I get confused and am not sure where to connect the new single phase power cable, since there's this second cable there and it seems like they share several prongs.
I assume I must adjust this to about 1.7A?
Thanks!
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6 hours ago, patineto said:What about taking out a window and use a fork lift to lift it up..
This is pretty much the method to bring big items into your tiny apartments all over the Nederlands, Belgium, etc
I’ve pretty much decided to just keep the machine in a storage unit until we move to a bigger place on the first floor. It’s mounted to a so-called Euro pallet (120x80cm) already which gives it a bigger footprint.
There also seems to just be two huge bolts attaching the machine head to the stand, so it shouldn’t be too hard to split it into two parts for easier transportation.
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34 minutes ago, Constabulary said:Hope this helps:
Thanks a million! I don’t know if I dare to do this myself but at least now I can show this to someone competent who can rewire it for me.
You put a normal 1-phase plug on this at the end right? Like the black plug in my picture up here.
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Hi guys. I took a second look at the plaque on the motor of the stitcher today. Notice how it says 220/380V on the label below the HP:
This leads me to believe the motor can be run at 220V as well, the standard domestic voltage in my country. But the power plug is three-phase, the black one is for the bobbin/wax heater and the red three-phase is for the motor:
Notice also how the on/off switch has been replaced. The ugly gray brick is the new switch. Any ideas how I can get this up and running on 220V? It seems a bit counterintuitive that the motor itself is three-phased but is marked to still be able to run on regular single phase 220V current? I really have no idea about all of this, which is why I need your help.
Oh, and I stitched some soles by handcranking it. Some tension issues still to figure out, but I'm getting there!
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Yup! I actually went back and rethreaded the stitcher differently; not going through the "tube" with the clamp all the way at the back of the machine stand that holds the thread back before going into the tension wheel. That seems to have solved the thread breakage issue. It says you're supposed to go through the wax pot if you're using waxed top thread, but since my wax pot is clogged and there is a rotten thread in there, I just skipped it and went straight up from the thread spool through two guide holes and into the tension wheel. Seems to be working much better with this specific thread. Also set the bobbin thread tension to an absolute minimum, and now the stitches are both longer and nicer looking.
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Hey I have the manual for the 309, but it's in Danish. I can scan it for you if you want.
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I tried test stitching the inner stitchdown row on a trial shoe yesterday. It went to hell
Thread just kept breaking on me, which hasn't happened on any of the dry runs on my sample piece. Back to the drawing board, a.k.a waiting for the new thread to arrive. The Ritza 25 just seems too heavily waxed and the machine doesn't want to pull it through smoothly, so it just breaks instead.
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36 minutes ago, Ogoki said:Actually, it doesn't look shiny once stitched. I would be surprised if Viberg used anything else, but let us know.
I can't imagine paying $4000-6000 for an outsole stitcher. Working Landis stitchers typically go for 600-700 dollars around here. One sold for 300 recently. Rapid Es aren't as common, so maybe a little more...
Ah, good to know. Will definitely see if I can't get hold of some of that then.
Yeah me neither. Maybe Canadians and Northern Europeans are spoiled with outsole stitchers
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15 hours ago, 480volt said:You an expat American? Don’t know who else would use “suicide knob”.
Haha, nah. I just love using idioms and local terms. I have a lot of American internet acquaintances and also study folklore (vocational group culture), so I suck it up like a sponge and use it in my everyday conversations.
15 hours ago, Ogoki said:CB554 bonded nylon thread is commonly used. Not sure if that would look too modern for you.
I do remember the maximum stitch length looking longer than that.... Water on the workpiece and a little bit of hand pressure can help it along, but I guess that's difficult if you're cranking it manually...
I'll look into that. One of the guys at the Viberg boot factory is also going to let me know what they use. It looks like a semi-beefy twisted thread of some kind with a matte finish, so it can't be nylon, I think. As far as the stitch length goes, I'm not too upset. In general I prefer slightly higher SPI for a clean and nice sole stitch. The length is similar to what you'd find on a pair of Tricker's or other English makers' sole stitching.
10 hours ago, shoes said:Vinculus, how much is that in USD ? Here in the states, that is a $4,000-6,000 machine in good running shape. I'm thinking you "stole" it!!! Good score.
It's about $380. Fully aware that it's a complete steal and thrilled knowing that fact, haha. You couldn't give one of these away for free just a few years back here in Finland because no one made or bought stitched construction footwear for a loooong time, but now it's getting popular again. Normally you can find them for $2200 and up here now, so the deal I got is still amazing even on the basis of a national pricing trend. I've looked at the Rapid A (gray paint) and C (green paint) and Model 309 (red paint), but settled on the Rapid E. The A and C are way too big and crude, the 309 too small. As mentioned earlier, there is a rare Pedersen Rapid II (grayish blue paint) that is right in the middle between Model 309 and Rapid E. Would've loved to get my hands on that one, but there's just one cobbler in the whole country who owns one. And I think he's taking it with him to the grave, haha.
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On 24.11.2017 at 8:55 PM, mikesc said:
They might well "fail the floor" or the stairs if they were all standing in the same 12" x 12" or 18" x18" spot ( that is what is meant by the "machine's footprint" ) Floors and stairs are rated at "max load per square foot"..I weigh well over 100 kgs and take a shoe size 13 ( or 14, depends on who is making the shoes ) UK, so a 300kgs machine with a small pedestal base ( like is like me standing in one spot with another "me" on my shoulders, "and another "me" on his shoulders"..3 - 100 kgs guys hugging each have their feet on the floor and so the load is spread over at least 3 times the surface area..
Things don't "float" upstairs when you carry them , the weight of what you are carrying is added to your own weight and is concentrated on each of your feet, and you go upstairs one foot at at time..so 300kgs plus the guys carrying it ( I can lift and carry my own weight, do it all the time when cutting logs and splitting them for winter, can't walk upstairs with a 100 kg piece of wood though ) ..300kgs between two 100 kg guys going up stairs..that's them carrying a 150kg each, upstairs..ain't gonna happen..so..needs 4 guys, each taking a quarter of the weight ( 75 kgs )..each guy weighs 100kgs minimum..so total weight 4 guys plus the machine..700 kgs ..on a stairwell..it had better be made out of reinforced concrete..your wooden house stairs would break, and you'd all wind up with a 300kg machine probably on top of you..enough to kill you..or cause some serious injuries..
The original poster didn't say what kind of floor or stairs were involved until after I had given my advice..and I gave him professional advice, based on experience running a transport and removals business ( that is "house moving", "industrial moving,lots of heavy machinery moving and transporting and we were also specialised in moving military families ( both dad ( now deceased ) and I were in the military at one time in the past ) from Europe into the UK and from one end of the UK to the other. We both had to be "certified" so as not to make the kind of dangerous screw ups that I have seen done by people who hire a truck get a few friends around to help, and then they put things that are far to heavy on upper floors or on balconies or porches , result, the floors fail, the balcony or porch starts to sag and fails..or the stairs give way while the "thing" is being carried up them and everyone finds themselves in an untidy injured heap of guys under a cast iron kitchen range and some sharp splintery wood where the stairs used to be.
I know one guy who was moving a kitchen range ( weight around 200 or 250 kgs , with 3 other guys up a stairway when it collapsed, he is now a paraplegic wheelchair user*, one of the others still walks with a heavy limp, all were hospitalised at the time )..we were working 3 houses down from them, I had already seen the cast iron kitchen range being unloaded, and had warned them that if the building was the same inside as the one we were doing the "house move" ( 1st floor kitchen ) that they would get hurt..They did, badly, I took no pleasure in being proved correct , nor in helping get the thing off them and the wreckage from around them and giving them emergency first aid until the ambulance guys arrived.
* the guy was a pilot, RAF jets, used to play rugby too , as did his mates, he is no longer a pilot, he doesn't play rugby anymore, his mates don't play either, but they were big guys like me, and they thought that it would be no problem to get the thing upstairs "if we can lift it, we can move it"..( they thought I was being to cautious ) there is much more to doing house moving, or industrial moving , safely, than being able to move heavy things.
We had another guy who had a big lathe ( well over 1000kg ) in his garage ( solid reinforced concrete floor ) , he thought we could load it "complete", onto a truck ( truck could take 32000 kgs , so "in theory" we could ) and put it into a ground level room "veranda" with concrete floor, at his new house..again in theory, we could, problem was to get to the veranda, ( at the back of the house ) we'd have to go through 3 rooms that had wooden plank floors on "joists"..even with two "pallet lifters" ( around 200 kgs each ) we would have gone through his wooden floors as soon as all the weight got past his front door and onto the floors..so he had to spilt it down into parts that weighed less.
What can go wrong, frequently will go wrong, pros try, by thinking things through, to avoid the consequences of that happening, and to, if necessary, not doing something which has a high possibility of being "an accident waiting to happen".
In case you think that means I'd never do anything that might be dangerous In the "military" part of both my , and my dad's lives, we both did a great deal of jumping out of perfectly good aircraft when they were very high up ( and sometimes very low down ) and having only our pull on the D rings of our carefully packed chutes to prevent us from making a mess on the ground..sometimes we even jumped out of planes without being paid for it, and left pulling the D rings for as long as possible..no sensation matches free fall :)..except maybe a wingsuit. :))
long post..and not really "on topic", but, if it can prevent someone doing something potentially very dumb..and potentially dangerous.
remember, we are not just here talking amongst ourselves, many others are reading , maybe without ever posting, but it might make them think "safety first" before moving something really heavy.These are great - and scary - points. I will take this into consideration when it's time to move the machine the next time around. Fortunately the whole thing is mounted to a pallet, so the footprint of the machine is spread over a slightly bigger surface area.
In other news, I have cleaned, oiled and threaded the machine, mounted a suicide knob on one of the flywheels and done some test stitches on the number of layers and rough material thickness of what I usually stitch: and it stitches like a champ! Stitches are a little short at the maximum length, but I think I can solve this by setting the bobbin thread tension to an absolute minimum and also lovering the top thread tension. It's the same on my Frobana: if I put too much tension on the threads the stitches will be shorter. I will also have to find a better looking thread. Ritza 25 1mm. thickness just doesn't cut it, I want a round twisted thread instead of a flat braided one - at least for the top thread.
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4 hours ago, Ogoki said:Nice score! I'm jealous. That's the king of outsole stitchers, there. I used one of those in a production facility, but now use a lowly Champion 55 in my home shop.
I don't really see the benefit of a servo motor in this case. In my experience (heavy boots), you want flywheel momentum, so low speed stitching really isn't an option, unless you are making light footwear, I suppose... Any old industrial motor would do. The one on my Champion is a 1/3hp/1725rpm. A 1/2hp wouldn't hurt, as the Rapid E flywheels are heavier...
I would be jealous for the price I got it for as well alone, haha. TBH I would've loved the Rapid II, which is a little smaller but still able to stitch cleanly through really thick materials. But alas, they are rarer than hen's teeth.
Note taken in regards to motors. Clutch motors are often quite big though, and the one that is mounted in the machine is small. Will have to find something small and suitable to make it easier to match up the pulley position and such.
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12 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:What kinds of shoes do you make, @Vinculus?
Stitchdown boots based on traditional Scandinavian military, work and ski boot patterns but on a more contemporary set of lasts.
You can see more examples on my instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ostmoboots/
I've been hand stitching the soles for two years now. Takes forever.
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Finally got the machine out of the cold and into the heat. Here are a couple of pictures, apologies for the size:
The heating coils have been repaired and rewired to a new separate 220V circuit, so at least I can still hand crank it to test how it stitches without the motor.
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2 hours ago, brmax said:Initial reasons I ask about the pulley arangement was to assess the use of plain ole 120v servo motor. Skip the 220 if possible. I was guessing that machine was geared already to use a small amount of power, and using machine parts as momentum. Im curious to hear any operational characteristics of these machines, mainly for any motor loads.
Floyd
Well, I live in Europe and 220-230V is the domestic standard here. I will have to figure out everything once I’ve moved the machine and can tinker with it in my storage unit. I’ll be sure to take lots of pictures, no question about that. Mostly because I have no idea what some parts do and require help from a fella abroad that restores these for a living.
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1 hour ago, brmax said:Just to be curious, first.
What hp motor is on it now, and what dia. pulley is on the motor at present.
Do you have a photo of the back gearing/pulley arrangement possibly.
Good day
Floyd
I will have to get back to you on this. I haven't transported the machine to my storage unit yet.
1 hour ago, CowboyBob said:I have a customer that has bought at least 5 of our little 550 watt Family-Sew motors & mounted them on Landis#12,so a 1000w would surely work.
Oh, cool. Maybe I'll just go for a 3/4hp servo then, like I have on my Adler 68 post bed. I'll have to do some more research. Pulleys and whatever are cheap, so as long as the motor works one would think getting the right size and width pulley shouldn't be hard.
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Since I already have the thread here, I guess I can ask a question regarding the motor.
Right now it's fitted with a 380V motor. I'd like to change this to a normal 230V motor, as that's just way more convenient. Can I just get a 1000W/1HP servo motor for regular industrial sewing machines, or does a curved needle sole stitcher require a particular type of motor?
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How this ended up going:
Gave up on the idea of getting it home. Rented a self storage space and arranged for having it transported there while I wait until we move to a bigger place. Gonna be a real nightmare to move it from Finland to Norway when the time comes to move though.
But it got it for €350, so I can't complain.
Thanks for the advice, everyone!
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14 hours ago, mikesc said:First of all, are you sure that your apartment floor can take the weight of the machine concentrated into the area of its "footprint" ?
( unless the floor is made of steel reinforced concrete, it may not be able to support the weight, and you could find it suddenly again at ground level )
Secondly, can your stairs take the weight ? even split some of the parts may weigh one or two hundred pounds, two hundred pounds carried by two strong guys means that each of them will probably have a total weight of 250 pounds to 300 pounds ( or more ) that is their own weight plus t the weight they are carrying, that means each of their steps is placing a total weight of 250 to 300 lbs on each stair riser, concentrated in just the area of their shoe sole..
Thirdly..you might want to talk to your insurers first, because if anything happens, they will not consider placing such a weight on the stairs or the floor as "normal", and thus may well refuse to pay out if there is an accident , involving damage or injury, during or after the heavyweight acrobatics.
My father had a removal business after he retired from the military, I was involved for a few years, in order to have such a business ( or certain kinds of transport businesses ) one has to have in the UK ( and most other EU countries ) what was known in the UK as a "certificate of professional competence"..( requires a quite stringent examination to be passed and to gain the certificate, we both obtained the qualification, and all the other licences, HGV artic' , forklift etc )..These were the kind of questions I would have asked anyone who approached us to move such a weight into an apartment via stairs..or even into a house at ground floor level..the floors in most domestic buildings are not designed ( nor are they capable of ) supporting this kind of weight when it is not spread out over a reasonable area.If someone could not prove to me that they were insured for such, and that they had had an architect "sign off" on the exercise..I would have politely declined the task, and left it under the tarp..on terra firma.These are all great points. To address your first issue, the floor of our apartment is made out of a couple of feet of steel reinforced concrete. This is the student village, so the buildings are very bare-bones with the "innards" made to last and they just replace the floor coverings and such as needed. As for the stairs, they are similarly built. I think this will be the least of my issues. I already have an old Adler 68 on a huge cast iron table as well as a skiving machine in the opposite end of the room and combined they probably weigh around the same - although the footprint is definitely a larger surface area.
However, you have got me thinking. After some further investigation, we do have cheap storage units here in the student village on the ground floor of a heated building. After having a look at the machine later today, I might just book one of those store units and keep it there.
Thank you for your input, it was most valuable!
Dismantling a Rapid E outsole stitcher machine head from table for transport - HOW?!
in Leather Sewing Machines
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Okay folks, for anyone who might need advice on how to solve this in the future, I decided not to go the VFD route. Instead I bought a new motor:
Hopefully this solves my problems. The Rapid machine has an external clutch, so I didn't need to worry about getting a clutch motor. Continuous drive is where it's at.