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Hi everyone, I am commencing a few initial experiments with vinegaroon, and I wondered if anyone had any experience with a few ideas The darkening process of vinegaroon, as I understand it, is due to the reaction between iron (II and III) acetates and the tannic acid in vegtan leather. the role of vinegar is simply to dissolve the iron into a solution of ferric and ferrous acetate salts. If this is the case, it should be possible to pre-neutralize the vinegaroon using either baking soda or perhaps hydrogen peroxide (potential side formation of insoluble iron carbonate and iron hydroxide precipitates should be easily removed by filtering, and should not remove too much iron acetate before neutralizing the solution as long as most of the remaining acetic acid has already reacted with iron. A pH meter or universal indicator paper could be used to gradually titrate the solution towards neutral before using to dye leather This pre-neutralized vinegaroon should not overly acidify the already acidic leather, removing the need for a baking soda bath and avoiding the problems with potentially over alkalizing the leather. There is perhaps an increased potential for the solution to go mouldy over time (although the high concentration of iron salts should probably prevent this) but if this were a problem small amounts of vinegaroon could be neutralised before use, leaving the bulk solution acidic for storage until needed. As an initial experiment I pre-mixed a small amount of fresh vinegaroon (on the day I made it) with excess baking soda until the result was definitely alkaline (in fact the result was a paste with unreacted baking soda) and it still dyed the leather black. I have no doubt I over alkalized the leather in the process, but the point was to confirm that the acidic conditions of the vinegaroon are not necessary for the reaction with the tannins. I have a batch of vinegaroon maturing and have ordered a pH meter and some indicator paper, and plan to experiment properly in a few weeks, but am wondering if anyone has conducted similar experiments or can comment on my understanding of the chemistry. Also, if anyone has an idea of a potential base to neutralize the solution which won't precipitate out some of the iron ions, I would be interested. My hope is that pre-nautralised vinegaroon could be simply be rinsed off, leaving a dyed item that should not corrode metal hardware like snaps and rivets

Hey all, I have been searching for a tried and true method of neutralizing vinegaroon, and most methods I have found seem to be kind of vague, leaving me with a couple of questions: What is the ratio of baking soda to water? Does water temp matter at this stage? How long to dip/leave the leather in the baking soda/water mixture (all I have read is "not too long". I have no idea what that means)? I read that you need to oil the leather after you have bathed the vinegaroon dipped leather in the baking soda/water mixture, and then washed with warm, clean water in order to "bring life" back into the leather. I seem to have read (I think on cascity) that better results might have been had when applying oil before the leather had completely dried. Does anyone have any experience with this? Also, I have made a black walnut dye, and the leather still has a strange smell after dried, would neutralizing using the same method be beneficial? Thank you for any input! Zayne

I'm getting ready to try vinegaroon for the first time on a project, so I made up a batch and tested it on a scrap of leather, brushing it on some of the scrap, waiting a day, and then soaking the leather in baking soda dissolved in water for a few (less than 3) minutes. I only vinegarooned the very end of the scrap, but I dunked the whole scrap into the baking soda solution. The vinegarooned portion came out perfect, and all vinegar smell was gone. However, the un-vinegarooned end of the leather seems to have been significantly darkened by the baking soda solution; it's now a medium to dark brown. My baking soda solution was about 2 tbsp dissolved in about 8-10 ounces of water. So, I have two questions: 1. Can a baking soda solution be used as a cheap dark brown dye, similar to the way vinegaroon is used for black? 2. I'm assuming the darkening of the leather is a result of the baking soda burning it, which presumably could lead to problems similar to not neutralizing vinegaroon. So, is it necessary to use a specific strength formulation of baking soda solution to prevent a swing from one end of the ph scale to the other, rather than ending up in the middle?