New knife sheath for friend...

[SCOUTER]

Last week a friend of mine asked me if I could make him a sheath for his 20 year old Puma knife. I agreed because I can use the practice. I asked him what type he wanted and he said it was up to me but keep it simple. Well, I always liked that western style look with that beautiful rich golden reddish tan saddle color. Like a saddle, rifle scabbard, or other classic western tack. I started by drawing a design, making a pattern, cutting, tooling, dyeing, attaching snaps, sewing... Now I know I am a hobbyist and this is just fun for me but it took me over 4 hours. I know I am super slow but even if you were real fast it has to take an hour.. Right? How much can one charge for a sheath, holster or saddle!? I take my hat off to all the leatherworkers out there that can pop out quality work and make a living! I would be Hungry and homeless.

[JohnBarton]

I don't know but my friend Chas Clements used to charge quite a lot of his sheathes and get what he asked for. He once loaned me several knives and sheaths for a display and the total value of the knives was on the order of 5000+ and I didn't ask him the value of the sheaths.

I guess the high end folks are in demand and the mid-range probably struggles a bit getting fair prices for their time.

Kinda like making pool cues and pool cue cases I suppose :-)

[abn]

That's some fine work there, Scouter. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take my time to produce something nice than rush it to turn a quick buck. I feel like I'm going 1,000 mph at my day job, rushing from this task to another. When I get home and pick up my handtools, I like to take my time and not think of unpleasantries like profit and production. Pop the top of a cool beer, kick back and actually enjoy something for a change, right?

This is why I've relegated myself to the title of eternal hobbyist... I'm too slow to do this for money!

Nice work! -Alex

[rdb]

The way I am beginning to figger it, in the beginning, you can't keep up with demand. First, you have to work out your patterns. Then you have to reduce time in the making of your product, if you can. If you can't cut the time, then it is what it is. You have to build patterns, and stock.

I'm trying to make $15 an hour. Right now, its about $1 an hour. I have no place to go but up...lol

That sheath you made, will probably take you only an hour or two at most after you get it down, so let's say two hours, plus $2 material/restock, plus $5 overhead (if you had a shop...electricity, rent, etc.) Total $37.

Now that's a lot for a sheath you could find in a store for $10, but with a custom carving, handstitched to last forever, made in the USA, by a human, ....that's Priceless!.

[indypbear]

The way I am beginning to figger it, in the beginning, you can't keep up with demand. First, you have to work out your patterns. Then you have to reduce time in the making of your product, if you can. If you can't cut the time, then it is what it is. You have to build patterns, and stock.

I'm trying to make $15 an hour. Right now, its about $1 an hour. I have no place to go but up...lol

That sheath you made, will probably take you only an hour or two at most after you get it down, so let's say two hours, plus $2 material/restock, plus $5 overhead (if you had a shop...electricity, rent, etc.) Total $37.

Now that's a lot for a sheath you could find in a store for $10, but with a custom carving, handstitched to last forever, made in the USA, by a human, ....that's Priceless!.

RDB, you've got it nailed-you figger'd goooode. Don't undersell your talent 'cuz when your gone they'll want to come back for more and will pay higher prices and the supply won't meet the demand. Moral-get your price NOW!!!

WOW-you're making $1 per hour!

Indy

[indypbear]

Scouter, that's a nice looking sheath. Keep up the good work. Is that for a Scouting friend? When people see that sheath you'll be busy. Recently, I asked about a pattern for a can/bottle holster, got a couple of photos/patterns, modified it to fit both and am now making more of them than I bargained for by the power of one (one person tells one who tells two, etc.).

Have you had WB yet? I made Poohbear slides for the patrol members and sucked up to the Coach Counselor & SM with personal ones. Pooh was colored with Cova Dye (arcylic) and turned out pretty good for 30 years ago. Those were populr too-for a while.

Happy toolin'.

YIS/V,

Indy

[John D Dennehy]

Ah yes my Son, you ask the question of the eternal mystery. When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, then you will have the answer. Just kidding. It seems to be simple but it is really a tough question.

You could easily be up to $90.00 with the time and materials spent on that project. If you paid your self $12/hr x 1.7 to cover SS, taxes, etc... Add in about $6 for materials X 1.3. Seriously now, if you think about that $12.00 an hour is a pretty low wage and even charging the full $20.40/hr is way cheaper than any other service offered. I just paid $90/hr to have my computer fixed. That is just one way to figure things up.

With all of that being said, the stumbling block seems to be convincing the public (customers) that leather craftspersons should be fairly compensated. Even a hobbiest that is doing this for pure enjoyment should get compensated fairly when asked to do a project. Can you get $90 for a sheath like the one you just made? (Very nice by the way) Realistically the $37.00 is more like it. With the tooling I would add more.

I read an interesting comment in Shop Talk (Jan 08) issue. The Editor mentioned that we should all update and modernize the financial end of our business. His final comment was " We should stop subsidizing our customers' recreational activties because they certainly don't subsidize ours. By that I mean many shops continue to underprice their work which undermines everyone else"

I think he hit it right on the head. Just my $.02 x 1.7 plus inflation......

[Jordan]

Thats a dollar more an hour than I am making.

[SCOUTER]

Of all the posts I have ever posted or read, I think that you all hit it right on the head. That's what is so great about this forum, it's having people like the above making sense out of something that can leave us scratching our heads... Thanks very much!

P.S. As for the sheath, I wound up just giving it to him. It turns out the guy really appreciates Leatherwork. I gave it to him at work and he walked around all day showing people. Within a few hours I had people asking me if I can make this and that all day. I think because we are in a time where people have "very little free time", crafting skills are not as prevalent as they were years ago when people due to lack of money and lots of free time, had many hobbies.

"Hey can you make me a Jacket?" :mellow:

[dbarleather]

Of all the posts I have ever posted or read, I think that you all hit it right on the head. That's what is so great about this forum, it's having people like the above making sense out of something that can leave us scratching our heads... Thanks very much!

P.S. As for the sheath, I wound up just giving it to him. It turns out the guy really appreciates Leatherwork. I gave it to him at work and he walked around all day showing people. Within a few hours I had people asking me if I can make this and that all day. I think because we are in a time where people have "very little free time", crafting skills are not as prevalent as they were years ago when people due to lack of money and lots of free time, had many hobbies.

"Hey can you make me a Jacket?" :mellow:

One of the best forms of advertising.

Semper Fi,

Daryl

[indypbear]

Scouter,

Got to live chat if you are in the viw mode.

Indy

[PaulakaFrenchy]

Hello Scouter, nice Sheath. Looks like it'll last a few generations! I too often wonder how folk in certain craft related businesses make a proper living. It's just as well that I don't have to make knives and Sheaths for a living and charge proper hourly rates as otherwise I'll never sell anything. The best I can do is base my cost on materials and consumables with some extra for electric etc. Time is definitely not a cost consideration in my case, especially when it comes to making Sheaths as there's no way I make a decent Sheath in a few hours. I don't often get asked to make Sheaths, but when I do, I charge between £35 and £50 depending on size and complexity. Generally speaking few folk appreciate what's really involved in making a Custom sheath, so their perception of worth and value for money tends to be way off target. I used to make walking sticks, but I don't anymore because I could never get a fair price for them and hardly covered the cost of materials. As I make knives complete with sheaths, I figure out an 'all in' costing and things sort of work out OK in the long run. Another problem I encountered when at one time I thought of organizing myself on a business footing is that no matter how good my stuff is, there's only so much as a 'one man band' I can make in a week, month etc. Even as a committed hobbyist I now find that I'm running behind all the time and my turnaround time is getting longer. Sometimes it gets a bit too much and everything becomes a chore and the enjoyment/fun factor ebbs away into oblivion. Another aspect that would impinge on making a decent living is that you never know from one week to the next what orders would be coming in. You could go weeks with no orders coming in and then at other times you get too many to cope with! I'm lucky in that I don't have to rely on orders coming in to get by, but I wonder how many skilled artisans struggle to make ends meet.

To finish off with, here's is a link to a page on my website that shows the sheaths I made for my Damascus 'Puma Hunter' type knives: http://www.customknivesandsticks.co.uk/StickTangKnives.htm I've got to say that I'm getting a lot of pleasure from this forum, picking good tips as I go along. So many thanks to all who are good enough to share their knowledge and experience.