rigging type

[figthnbullrider]

what type or rigging do you use, also what positions do you like and why

[YRsaddles]

There are many different types of rigging out there...Typically the two that are used most often are "tree" type rigging in which the rigging uses rings or dees and then the rigging leather is nailed directly to the tree, the the secong most common is inskirt rigging, where rigging cees or plates are rivoted in between the skirts. Both are very good and thats what I'd recommend that you use one or the other.

As far as position. that REALLY depends on the horse and how the tree sits on the horses back, also another thing to take into consideration is what the saddle is being used for, roping, barrel racing, trail riding ect. there REALLY are no "rules" as far as rigging and position generally the horse and rider dictate what rigging and position I will use. Did that answer your question? or did you want to know what was my preference on which types were the quickest and easiest to install?

Edited January 9, 2008 by YRsaddles

[figthnbullrider]

thanks for the response, those are all types of riggins that i have herd of. i am planing to use the tree riggin, but i want to know what yall use and why. the position i plan on using is a 7/8. for an all around general ranch saddle. it will be used on many diffrent horses

[bruce johnson]

I would seriously consider a drop plate/flat plate/Montana plate rigging. More leather, but more stirrup swing and I think balanced pull and strength for a using saddle. I have a Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pickup in the yard, so I am pretty open minded. I have built dee ring on skirt/off skirt, in-skirt, dropped ring, EZ dee, and plates. I like plates the best for all around use. Each of the others (maybe not the round ring or EZ dees so much) have some limitations for me.

[wood]

I like flat plate riggings on all around ranching saddles.

[mudman]

Anyone use the old style rig riggin'?

[oldtimer]

Anyone use the old style rig riggin'?

Hey mudman. Since I build old time saddles I use the old Sam stagg rigging, set at full or at most, 7/8 position . The Sam Stagg rigging works fine ( as it did "once upon a time in the west" ) and is probably much stronger than a "regular" front rigging attached to the tree with screws

My next project will be a "Vaquero Wade" saddle,a half seat saddle built on a Timberline Wade tree, Sam Stagg rigging and exotic wood for the horn cap. Vaquero Wade is my name of the project.

Edited January 18, 2008 by oldtimer

[Alan Bell]

Some rigging considerations: First off you have to know the reason behind the different positions. Full puts the saddle as far back as it can go. Center Fire puts it as far forward as it can go. That being said you have to consider the tree bars. If full is considered to be positioned so that the center of the pull or cinch ring is in line with the widest part of the bar (which is usually in line with the center of the horn, but not always) then on any placement besides full you have to consider how much bar there is in front of the full position as this will eventually interfere with the horses shoulder movement. Also the shape of the rock and twist of your bars become a factor. There was a discussion when i first joined this forum about the "sweet spot" in relation to a center fire saddle. There are two sweet spots on the horse to factor in. 1) is the pocket on the withers 2) is the place where the girth settles. As Rod and Denise Nikkels point out "every tree maker does things differently" it is wise to get a tree and put it on the type of horse you think you or your customer will be riding the most if possible. Some saddle trees may work fine in the 5/8 position but because of the bar shape they will interfere with shoulder movement since they have more sticking out past the center of the widest part of the bar (or center of the horn). This is all irregardless of the type of rigging you use. As to types: Flat plate is widely considered to be the strongest but also adds the most weight to the saddle. A properly done in skirt is also considered to very strong but it has to be done properly so that the pull of the cinch is transfered up to the tree and not just on to the leather. All this being said for an all around ranch saddle to be used on many different horses some for ranch work I would consider looking at whether the tree I am considering will work in the 3/4 position. I would try and get it as far forward as i could because this will place the rider in a forward position keeping him or her better balance over the horses center of gravity.

Vaya Con Dios, Alan

Ridin' through the storm. Riding through the calm

Bob Marley - Ride Natty Ride

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Sorry Alan but we have to disagree with your basic premise that rigging determines tree position. The idea that rigging position affects where the saddle sits is a misconception, unless the tree doesn’t fit at all. If the shape of the bars match the shape of the horse’s back, it is like setting two spoons together. With any movement at all, they adjust themselves so the bowls fit together. In the same way, the saddle will move till its curves most closely match the curves on the horse’s back – rightly or wrongly. It is only when the curves don’t match well anywhere that the rigging position can affect the saddle position.

Part of what we see as a problem is the misconception that there is correct "sweet spot" for the cinch, that it needs to hang vertically and sit right behind the horse’s elbow. Why? It can go anywhere on the underline of the horse between the back of the elbow (so it doesn’t rub there) and the back of the sternum. The old center fire rigs didn’t have their cinches sitting behind the elbow. And there is no rule that says it has to be vertical either, though it can be. That depends a lot of the shape of the horse. If the horse narrows a lot towards the front, the cinch will tend to move there and will run forward at an angle. In some horses, the back of the shoulder blade is above or even back of the spot behind the elbow where people think the cinch “should” go. To make a cinch hang vertically here, the rigging would hang off the front bar tips or the saddle would be placed on top of the shoulder blades. On a horse like this, the cinch will slant forward, but if the tree fits, it will not cause it to move out of position.

So what effect does a rigging position have on the fit if it doesn’t move the saddle out of position? A rigging basically pulls down. Even if it slants forward, the vector laws you talked about in that old post, Alan, say that the majority of the force is down, with only a little forward if the cinch slants a bit forward. Practically, if a tree fits well the shape holds it in place and the small amount of forward force on it by a slanting cinch will not cause interference with the shoulders. If it does, it is because it doesn’t fit well and the cinch can pull it forward. More problems are caused by riggings set too far ahead. The further forward the rigging is set, the further forward the downward pull is centered, regardless of how they are made. Most full riggings are made so that front cinch pulls down solely or primarily on the front of the tree. Unless the back cinch is done up snug to help balance that (and we all know how many people ride with hanging back cinches) it has a much greater probability of interfering with the shoulders due to the increased pressure on the front of the tree, in effect reducing the relief built into the bar tips for the shoulder blades. Though it seems counter-intuitive, the best place for rigging on a horse where you are worried about shoulder interference is further back as it spreads the pull over the whole tree, not just the front of it. That means less pressure on the front of the bars, giving more room for the shoulder blades to slide under the relief built into the bar tips, which happens during the un-weighted phase of their stride.

[David Genadek]

A big Amen to what Rod said!

David Genadek