Building my own 1800's Hope

[AZThunderPony]

Hold on to your hats boys and girls, I'm jumping into the frying pan! I have decided that when my tree is delivered a few months from now, having been made by the Nikkels, that I'm going to attempt my first saddle. Minimalist Hope half seat.

I'll be picking brains and am looking forward to the learning process, both the hands on as well as sitting at all of your guy's and gal's feet. It will be a bit yet, but once I get the tree I want to have all my necessary equipment and leather ready to go. So anything any of you are willing to share to help me set up for this project, I will certainly be very appreciative. I will be blogging the various steps along the way, so if any of you have helped out and want credit I will be happy to do that for you.

Thanks a bunch,

;)S

[TrooperChuck]

I love the old-timer saddles. I'm very much looking forward to seeing pics!!!

[oldtimer]

I have built a couple of Hope and Santa Fe saddles and studied the subject a lot . I´m still waiting for a book on the subject to be released: "Saddles of the frontier west" by Zon Publ. Co. I don´t know what has happened but the release has been postponed for a couple of years. ( Amazon.com) Also, "The UMO cayuse handbook" has a lot of info about early saddles and tack.

A couple of links of interest:

http://www.sawtoothsaddle.com/large-photo....es&treeName=

A really "fat" Hope saddle

http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/handle/10088/2438 " Man made mobile" the history of the western saddle .

www.lg-usa.com/UMO/UMO.html The UMO cayuse handbook

Good luck with your project, keep us updated, questions are welcome. Let us see pics!

" If you ain´t riding your mustang in an old time saddle - you might just as well walk!"

Edited February 13, 2009 by oldtimer

[AZThunderPony]

" If you ain´t riding your mustang in an old time saddle - you might just as well walk!"

I will definately be riding my Spanish Mustang in an old time saddle. What do ya think? Can you visualize the minimalist Hope or Santa Fe on him? I plan to deck him out in fully 1800's period equipment and do exhibitions and long rides representing the horse of the past of which he is a decendent.

Thanks for the offer, I'm certain I will be taking you up on asking questions. Very kind of you to offer. I will definately keep a photo log of my project and will share here as well as on my blog.

;)S

Edited February 14, 2009 by AZThunderPony

[jonwatsabaugh]

Sounds like Oldtimer is a pretty good source of info. There's another feller on this forum that's also quite knowledgeable in 1800's cowboy gear and a very talented maker. His name is Will Ghormley and I know he has made several Hope rigs. I built several trees for him a couple of years back, one of which was a Hope tree, for a PBS reality series called Texas Ranch House. You may be able to purchase a set of patterns from him for your project. Also, check out his web-site willghornley-maker.com

Jon

Edited February 14, 2009 by jonwatsabaugh

[oldtimer]

A Spanish Mustang and a Hope saddle makes a wonderful combination from "the good old days"!

Beautiful horse ! That crested neck gives a hint of pure (horse)power!

Dick Sherer of Sherer Custom saddles, Colo. has built a fine Hope saddle : http://www.sherersaddlesinc.com/images/1860_reprob.gif

Good luck with the saddle for your Thunderpony!

/ Knut

Edited February 14, 2009 by oldtimer

[AZThunderPony]

Thanks to both of you Old Timer and Jon, The info is highly useful. Jon, I'll be in touch with Ghormley to see if he has any Hope saddle patterns, from his site I do not see saddle patterns, but maybe he does have them and just doesnt market them. I'll ask. Oldtimer Thank you so much for the kind words about my horse and project. Its going to be a very fun journey.

I have been collecting photos of Hope saddles from times gone by to current reproductions and it continues to amaze me how each craftsman approaches the authenticity of the project differently. It tells me that there wasnt just one Hope pattern that makers followed. That the saddles were highly customized to the indivudal needs of rider, era, and work to be done. This opens up alot of room for creativity. I am guessing that in the 1800's era that assembly line saddles were not common?

Any thoughts...?

I have questions about how to go about obtaining appropriate leather quality. I am brand new to this craft so may be asking some pretty remedial questions here, so please bear with me. I have planned to buy from Hermann Oak so we have that out of the way. However, once I have my leather, and understanding that very little leather will actually go onto the tree, how to I begin to prepare my leather for the task at hand?

I understand leather is soaked, stretched etc, but at what stages does one create the suppleness to the leather, patina etc.?

;)S

[TrooperChuck]

I highly recommend you get some books on saddlemaking before you start this project. The standard seems to be Al Stohlman's saddlemaking encyclopedias, but there are also others which are quite good, too.

Even though these books won't give you patterns for making a Hope saddle, they will give you tons of information about selecting leather, which parts of the hide to use for various pparts of the saddle (some parts need to be more stretchy, some need to be more firm, and you need to know where to find that type of leather on a given hide), how to case the leather for shaping and molding, etc, etc, etc.

I love the Hope-style saddles, so I'm sending some good luck wishes your way!

Chuck

[Alan Bell]

The other suggestion would be for you to go to either the Leather Factory in your area or some saddle shops and look at the hand tools that are necessary to build a saddle. While you may be able to spend less to build a Hope saddle, especially if it is plain and not stamping or tooling the proper tools for each task will make that task easier. A head knife (and the means to sharpen and strop it) a black skiver, a saddlers hammer, a couple of edge bevelers, some spikes, a scratch awl, A work bench with a surface you can cut the leather on, several hole punches, a draw guage and you probably still need a drawdown stand I think these would be the minimum you can get by with. With the leather, the tree and the tools most of the time your first saddle ends up costing as much as it would to pay someone to do it for you so generally speaking if you are not planning on building more than one saddle it is not cost effective. Depending on your skills and your marketability it takes 5 - 10 saddles to break even on your initial investment. That's a rough guesstimate. You can write or call me if I can help you figure out what you need or help you figure out who to see to figure out what you need!

Vaya Con Dios, Alan

[AZThunderPony]

Thanks Chuck and Alan, Alan I will email you. Luckily I grew up a handy home builders daughter in the days when the builder did everything himself by hand with hand tools. Some of the tools if not the know how to build them are among my current stash. This type of info is exactly what I need to get going. And I agree the innitial investment will be more than my saddle could be built for by a good craftsman. My goal though is to become a craftsman myself of a specific product, not so much for income and more for functionality and availability. I have a job and I'm good at it. This will be more of a hobby and now that I no longer breed horses I can sink my teeth into it. I have a little leather working background from years past and have decided to build on it. I'm also an ex-professional artist and have been looking for a new medium to work in for a few years now. So here I go! :D Will be in contact to pick your brain.

Thanks for the support and Chuck I'll be ordering those books as well as some dvd's that are out there as well.

;)S

[oldtimer]

I have been collecting photos of Hope saddles from times gone by to current reproductions and it continues to amaze me how each craftsman approaches the authenticity of the project differently. It tells me that there wasnt just one Hope pattern that makers followed. That the saddles were highly customized to the indivudal needs of rider, era, and work to be done. This opens up alot of room for creativity. I am guessing that in the 1800's era that assembly line saddles were not common?

Any thoughts...?

S

The Hope saddle was the "North of the border" version of the mexican vaquero saddle, once called Spanish saddle, built on a rawhide covered, wooden saddle tree. The vaquero saddle in the beginning of the 1800:s had very few parts, a saddle tree with a single rigging, narrow stirrup leathers and a pair of stirrups. In the eastern parts of America there were "American saddles" made, closely resembling todays english dressage saddles.

Why Adolphus Hope (born 1808, and lived in Washington county, TX ) was credited for the style of saddle I don´t know. A double rigging was added to the mexican single rig tree as Texans roped hard and fast . Looking at pics of old Hope saddles show different ways to attach the front rigging to the tree, depending on who made the saddle. On some saddles the rings are nailed to the tree by pieces of leather, some show a mexican rigging with leather loops through the gullet , some have the Sam Stagg rigging and I have seen pics of saddles with a rigging combination of all these. So actually, within documented limits there is nothing right or wrong to make an authentic Hope saddle. It seems that each saddlemaker at the time made his own style of Hope saddle.

Edited February 17, 2009 by oldtimer

[AZThunderPony]

The Hope saddle was the "North of the border" version of the mexican vaquero saddle, once called Spanish saddle, built on a rawhide covered, wooden saddle tree. The vaquero saddle in the beginning of the 1800:s had very few parts, a saddle tree with a single rigging, narrow stirrup leathers and a pair of stirrups. In the eastern parts of America there were "American saddles" made, closely resembling todays english dressage saddles.

Why Adolphus Hope (born 1808, and lived in Washington county, TX ) was credited for the style of saddle I don´t know. A double rigging was added to the mexican single rig tree as Texans roped hard and fast . Looking at pics of old Hope saddles show different ways to attach the front rigging to the tree, depending on who made the saddle. On some saddles the rings are nailed to the tree by pieces of leather, some show a mexican rigging with leather loops through the gullet , some have the Sam Stagg rigging and I have seen pics of saddles with a rigging combination of all these. So actually, within documented limits there is nothing right or wrong to make an authentic Hope saddle. It seems that each saddlemaker at the time made his own style of Hope saddle.

Perfect! This goes right along with what I have been discovering. It gives me plenty of wiggle room for what I need and still end up with an authenitc version.

;)S

[TrooperChuck]

S:

It sounds like you are in the same situation I was a couple years ago. I wanted to learn how to make saddles, but I didn't want it to become a full-time job. For me, even though I do have a business license, saddlemaking is definately more of a hobby than a business. If I can make a few saddles a year, and sell them locally, I'm happy.

As Alan mentioned, the initial outlay of money for tools, supplies, and reference materials can be a bit spendy, but you CAN recover a lot of that money buy selling some saddles.

So, keep us informed of your progress!

Chuck