Cant Seem to get the hang of Plait 6

[Des804]

Ok and this is using the upper most left and the upper most Right going around back ?

[Des804]

Ok wouldn't let me edit my lats reply so I have to make another one Update is I used the U2 over 1 without a core and man it made a huge difference. I used String to do it though I'll have to look at how well it works with Lace. Might have to ask you guys what the formula is for Plait 8 and Plait 12 then and try to do plait 6 with a core.

Ok looking at it closely I still get the same looking thing on the front it looks like \/ but on the back its more tightly done it would seem. This was the same effect I was getting with the other thing as well. How do I even this out ? I dont think Im pulling to hard on one way or the other but yeah I am getting the same effect no matter what I do the u1 o1 the u2 over 1 and the u4 o2

Ok another edit I just added photos of the front and the back to show what I am talking about... Hopefully I can get some help to fix this.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Des804

[jerryrwm]

Des,

With 6 plait that is what it will look like with or without a core. The reason is that you have an uneven number of strands on each side - 3 on each. If you wre plaiting 10 you would end up with a finished prodouct that was different front to back - again because of the uneven number of strands. That's the "whopper-jawed" effect I was talking about earlier. That doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong - and as they say in Wisconsin "It is what it is."

For patterns that plait the same front and back, you need to stay with multiples of 4 - ie. 8; 12; 16; etc. Then you would have an even number of strands on each side. 8 plait would be U2O2. 12 plait would be U3O3 (unless you wanted to do the herringbone and then it would be O2U2O2) 16 plait would be U4O4 (or herringbone which would be U2O2U2O2)

I would still recommend getting Edward' "How To Make Whips". Grant's book does not go into the inner wotking of a whip or help with the bellies that a fine kangaroo whip has. The book is available through Amazon.com or through Ramskull Press. Also check with the Aust. Whipmakers & Plaiters Assn.

[Des804]

* Smacks Forehead * you mean I've been making countless plait 6's thinking I was doing something wrong and I was actually doing it right.... As for the wihps book soon as I can start affording to buy things ( still laid off from work and unemployment ends here soon can barely afford to feed myself along with paying off my bills ) I'll add that to my list of things.

[LBbyJ]

Just for clarity the braid pictured above is the half round braid so the backside will have the running V and the front will have the over under sequence.

[BrokeStrand]

I can't seem to figure out how anyone can go u4 o2 with only 6 strands. If the working strand is #1, you go under 4 strands (that puts you at strand #5) and going over 2 strands would have you going over strand #6 and the working starnd (#1).

Am I missing something here?

I have worked a little with the 6 strand braid and don't care for it for the exact reason you thought something was wrong with yours. It doesn't look the way my mind thinks it should. Because I can't change reality (the way it looks), I just change my mind to use the number of strands that looks the way I think it should.

[HorsehairBraider]

I can't seem to figure out how anyone can go u4 o2 with only 6 strands. If the working strand is #1, you go under 4 strands (that puts you at strand #5) and going over 2 strands would have you going over strand #6 and the working starnd (#1).

Am I missing something here?

I have worked a little with the 6 strand braid and don't care for it for the exact reason you thought something was wrong with yours. It doesn't look the way my mind thinks it should. Because I can't change reality (the way it looks), I just change my mind to use the number of strands that looks the way I think it should.

You can't go u4 o2. Read the second post, by jerryrwm, and then read the 4th post by LBbyJ. I think they explain it pretty well.

I do think it's right to use the braids you like the best though. Why use something you don't care for? I think that is smart.

[Timothy]

I can't seem to figure out how anyone can go u4 o2 with only 6 strands. If the working strand is #1, you go under 4 strands (that puts you at strand #5) and going over 2 strands would have you going over strand #6 and the working starnd (#1).

Am I missing something here?

Brokestrand,

Let me see if I can explain it a couple of different ways. One of them might make more sense to you.

First, just to be clear, let's assume that you have six strands numbered 1-6 left to right.

First way:

Step 1 :Take strand #1 and go to the right under the next 4 strands: #2, #3, #4, and #5. Now go back to the left over two strands: #5 and #4. The numbers l-r are now 2,3,1,4,5,6.

Step 2: Take strand six and go to the left under four strands: #5, #4, #1, and #3. Now go back to the right over two strands: #3 and #1. The order should now be 2,3,1,6,4,5.

Step 3: Strand #2 right under four, back to the left over two.

Step 4: Strand #5 left under four, Back to the right over two.

Step 5: Strand #3 right under four, left over two

Step 6: Strand #4 left under four, right over two.

Start over with step one.

Second way.

Divide the strands so there are three in each hand. Take the outside strand in your left hand around the back and come up between the two outermost strands in your right hand(#5 and #6.) Add it back to the group in your left hand so that it is the inside strand. Now take the outside strand in your right hand around the back and bring it up between the two outermost strands in your left hand (#2 and #3). Add it back to the right hand group so that it is the inside strand. Repeat indefinately. All That changes are the numbers in parentheses, and they shouldn't matter after you get started.

Both of these should make the braid shown above with a herringbone front and a basketweave back. With a core it will be round. Coreless, the front will be flat and the back round.

I usually find that when I can't figure something out its because I get locked into a certain way of thinking, so I try to figure out different ways to look at things. Of course, it might just be that I'm stupid.

To me u4o2 does work, you just have to add some directions to it.(No offense meant, Horsehairbraider) When I was a kid Dad told me a four strand round braid was over 2 under 1. I never figured it out, and finally got him to show me how. Thats what I thought of when I saw the problem.

I hope this helps.

Tim

[jerryrwm]

I can't seem to figure out how anyone can go u4 o2 with only 6 strands. If the working strand is #1, you go under 4 strands (that puts you at strand #5) and going over 2 strands would have you going over strand #6 and the working starnd (#1).

Am I missing something here?

I have worked a little with the 6 strand braid and don't care for it for the exact reason you thought something was wrong with yours. It doesn't look the way my mind thinks it should. Because I can't change reality (the way it looks), I just change my mind to use the number of strands that looks the way I think it should.

No you're not missing anything. A 6 plait is always going to look like it does because of the odd number of strands on each side.

If you want it to look symetrical then you will need to plait O1U1O1. That's it. Bernie W of EM Brand Whips in Tasmania used to plait the end of his thong in O1U1O1 for a 6 plait finish. He felt it gave the tail end of the whip a little better liveliness plus a sysmetrical finish.

An easier solution would be to start using 8 strands. Cut the laces a little narrower or increase the size of the core and you can plait U2O2 all the way to the end.

Your choice. Plaiting is a mathematical function and the laws of mathematics cannot be changed. (Dang that almost sounded philosophical. Naaa - not from this old mossy head.)

G' Luck

Jerry

[BrokeStrand]

See why I don't like it. I even messed up the description of my missunderstanding.

What confused me was where you start counting strands. As far as I am concerned, a round braid must start with "around the back". So the first strand I come to is actually the outside strand on the opposite side (#6) (not #2 as I stated above).

My logic is because an u1o1 6 strand round braid doesn't start with u5.

I really appreciate the sharing of wisdom on this site. It has helped me avoid many hours of making mistakes. However, now I spend more time reading posts and looking at everyone's work.

You guys are great.