Best Leather for Braiding

[Geoff]

It seems from what I have read, that Kangaroo leather is by far the best for braiding and lacing. What comes in second best, and how far down the scale is it?

For example, is goat leather any good?

Thanks for any information,

Geoff

[Sidney Wood]

It seems from what I have read, that Kangaroo leather is by far the best for braiding and lacing. What comes in second best, and how far down the scale is it?

For example, is goat leather any good?

Thanks for any information,

Geoff

I don't think the animal is as important as the tannage. I have used a veg tanned goat that is intended for boot lining for decorative knots for 15 years or so and I prefer it to roo. It depends on the job. 8 oz harness leather makes fine roper reins, for example. There is a guy locally that cuts fine braiding strings from chap leather. The trick is good leather, as there is junk in all kinds. Most commercial lace can vary greatly in quality from spool to spool. The trick is see it before you buy it if possible, or find a source you can trust.

Sidney Wood

[megabit]

Best for braiding? Do you mean the easiest to braid or what makes the nicest finished product? I vote for RAWHIDE!

[Geoff]

Best for braiding? Do you mean the easiest to braid or what makes the nicest finished product? I vote for RAWHIDE!

That is a good question!

As a beginner, I suppose that I meant the easiest to get a decent looking result. With time and practice, I would like to get the nicest finished product.

Up to now, I did not see Rawhide lacing. Do you buy it or prepare your own?

Thanks,

Geoff

[megabit]

That is a good question!

As a beginner, I suppose that I meant the easiest to get a decent looking result. With time and practice, I would like to get the nicest finished product.

Up to now, I did not see Rawhide lacing. Do you buy it or prepare your own?

Thanks,

Geoff

I think you will find most on here cut their own lace regardless of what type of hide they use. Hides are expensive, pre-cut lace even more so and the quality isn't generally very good. With a little practice and a $10 lace cutter you can cut about as good as most you would buy. You can likely find hand cut lace that would be of a high quality, but the price would be high. I started out with one of those little plastic cutters and then moved up to the one from WhiteBuf.

Another option for practice is paracord. It has some advantages and disadvantages. On the plus side it is cheap and you can undo it and use it again. On the downside you don't learn to keep the hair side up as you go.

[HorsehairBraider]

I used to teach spinning, and people would ask me what the "best" spinning fiber was. I'd ask them, what is the best car? Maybe they'd say a Lexus. OK, I'd say, I'll go out and buy a Lexus, and when you next see me I'll be at the feed store with two goats in the back seat, trying to cram hay into the trunk. A Lexus is not a good car FOR ME. I live on a farm, I need a TRUCK. So the answer to the question, "what is the best leather?" is another question: "What are you making?"

If you are making a bosal, the answer might be one thing. Are you making some roping reins? Maybe something else might work. Need something for the kids, so it's OK if they leave it out in the rain? Maybe another thing entirely.

You have to look at each situation, decide what sort of stress or abuse that item is going to get over its lifetime, and fit the material to the situation. Sometimes one thing will work, sometimes another. Truth is, you can use a LOT of different things to braid. Sometimes, even baling twine might be the "best" for that situation.

[Geoff]

I used to teach spinning, and people would ask me what the "best" spinning fiber was. I'd ask them, what is the best car? Maybe they'd say a Lexus. OK, I'd say, I'll go out and buy a Lexus, and when you next see me I'll be at the feed store with two goats in the back seat, trying to cram hay into the trunk. A Lexus is not a good car FOR ME. I live on a farm, I need a TRUCK. So the answer to the question, "what is the best leather?" is another question: "What are you making?"

If you are making a bosal, the answer might be one thing. Are you making some roping reins? Maybe something else might work. Need something for the kids, so it's OK if they leave it out in the rain? Maybe another thing entirely.

You have to look at each situation, decide what sort of stress or abuse that item is going to get over its lifetime, and fit the material to the situation. Sometimes one thing will work, sometimes another. Truth is, you can use a LOT of different things to braid. Sometimes, even baling twine might be the "best" for that situation.

That is the problem with being a beginner! What seems like a simple question obviously is not.

My experience in braiding is limited to various lanyard type things and I have done some lacing on wallets, knife sheaths etc Soon I want to make a riding crop for my daughter.

I suppose that I should reword my question : I am planning to make a riding crop. Would I be advised to buy some Kangaroo leather or make it with what I have (natural cow leather)

Thanks

[megabit]

Does she ride English or Western? If she rides Western than she would want a quirt not a crop and rawhide would be the hide of choice.

[Geoff]

Does she ride English or Western? If she rides Western than she would want a quirt not a crop and rawhide would be the hide of choice.

Sorry, I should may be have said at the outset - we are English, and my daughter does ride English style, albeit in Spain

Thanks for your help

[HorsehairBraider]

I would think cowhide would be fine for that use. An English riding crop typically has a stiff but flexible core (sort of like a fishing rod) and therefore the leather would not be that stressed. It would not be the strength that you need here, but the looks of the braiding.

That sounds like a great project, and I hope you'll post more about it!

[SmartAceW0LF]

Hello guys, a bit new to this site and this forum but have been an avid leather braider and knot tyer for over 10 years now. Geoff, at this stage of your experience and until you come to feel very comfortable with your abilities you would probably be best advised to stick with cowhide for numerous reasons, not the least of which is cost of materials. If your predominant interest is in braiding, I believe it is as much important to become familiar with cutting your own thongs or lace as it is in learning the weaving processes of the braids. In cutting and preparation, it seems to me cowhide is far more forgiving in the final appearance of your product than is say 'roo hide. In addition to that, kangaroo is easily 3 to 4 times the cost of cowhide. In my experience the geatest advantage one gains in cutting their own lace (and this is especially true early in ones elementary experiences with braiding) is that it provides the craftsman a far wider range of projects he can see to completion than would be the case in relying on pre-cut thongs. This especially holds true with a person whose ambitions are already set at the level you want to attain.

I make no pretense of being an expert in this craft. Quite the contrary, I have a LONG way to go before I get there. What I do know is this. The biggest factor to date holding me back from getting to where I desire to be in terms of skills is in my ability to cut the thongs properly. And I, like yourself, started out with fairly high ambitions from the start. I also started out by getting hides and cutting them up for thongs. Study the books, practice and you will soon venture across projects that you are confident in your ability to complete. It's Katy BAR THE DOOR! then.

I look forward to seeing your progress. Mind if I ask what literature you are reading thus far?

[Geoff]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies.

SmartAceWolf,

My reading thus far is limited to "Bushcraft No.8" by Ron Edwards and I have ordered "Braiding Fine Leather" by David W Morgan. Would the "Encyclopedia of Rawhide & Braiding" by Bruce Grant be going over the top for a beginner?

On the subject of cutting lace for braiding - How about the merits of the tools for the job?

I have seen the "Australian Lacers" on Ebay for about $25, and some rather better made ones from Dene Williams and Clint Sims (a bit over my budget at this time)

Would I be better trying my hand with one of the cheaper ones, or saving my money until I can afford the better one?

Thanks again,

Geoff

[jerryrwm]

Geoff,

The books you ordered are very good primers for braiding/plaiting. The Encyclopedia by Grant is a must have eventually. Also Gail Hought's "Art of Braiding-Revised" has some excellent information and is a good reference when things get 'gill-fluted'.

In regards to the equipment - buy the best you can afford. Read what the members here have said about their equipment. Then make the decision based on the level you want to reach. Some of the best whipmakers I know and know of use nothing but a sharp pocket knife to cut, skive, and thin their -roo hide. And they make 16 and 24 plait whips. Drew Schrag out of Missouri is one, and he makes some damn fine whips!

But like most plaiters/braiders, I have the Tandy lace cutter, the aussie strander, the Dene Williams strander, the Jerry stripper, the Hansen style cutter/beveler, and an Osbourne splitter. I use the Williams strander to cut the hide, the splitter to even it up, and a scalpel with #11 blade to skive/bevel the edges. So you will end up buying a lot of the same equipment to save money, but you will end up buying the better and more expensive equipment at a later date. So, my advice is to buy the best you can afford at the moment or save up to get it. You'll be a lot happier.

When it comes to using different types of leather, you need to decide what you want to make. If you want to make articles out of 'roo, then you should learn to plait with -roo. If you want to make things out of rawhide then you should learn to plait with rawhide. If you are making things for paracord, then learn with paracord. I say this because one type of material does not transition easily to the other. Rawhide needs to be at a proper moisture content in order to lay properly. 'Roo can be cut thinner and narrower than cowhide and has a different tensile strength than cowhide does. So you can plait tighter with -roo than you can with cowhide. Paracord plaits tight, but you should wax it after you finish. My point is that you should learn to use the material you will be ultimately using. Sure -roo costs more, but you will learn to quit making mistakes when the expense starts to tickle your brain.

Now for learning the basics such as learning 8 plait or 12 plait or practicing flat plaiting belts and hatbands, etc , you can use pretty much anything you have. Plastic lace, paracord, suede lace, etc. This will let you see where things should go and you can translate that to your material of choice.

Good luck, keep practicing and most of all enjoy what you do.

Jerry

[DougCim]

It seems from what I have read, that Kangaroo leather is by far the best for braiding and lacing. What comes in second best, and how far down the scale is it?

For example, is goat leather any good?

Thanks for any information,

Geoff

Haven't been at this long, but FWIW:

Kangaroo is used for better lacing just because it's so strong.

Kangaroo is "better" for braiding (in a way) because even without splitting, a roo hide is fairly consistent in thickness over its entire usable area. Kangaroo is also denser, and lays better because the flesh side is not fluffly like cowhide is.

The kicker to this is that if you have a splitter, then cowhide can be split down (say from 2 mm thick to around 1 mm) where the whole back/flesh "fluffy" side is skimmed away. This does waste some "good" leather, but then you have a consistent thickness of the cowhide, and also the soft backside is gone now too, and it braids much better because it lays much more solid.

Kangaroo does have a bit of thickness variation, but that is also mostly near the edges, where there is a lot more stretch also--so people would avoid using it all the way to the edge anyway. Among whipmakers, some people who braid roo do split it down, while some don't. If you wanted maximum strength + perfect consistency, you would need to find the thinnest spot, and then split the entire piece of leather down to that thickness.

At the shop I buy at, (~1mm thick) kangaroo costs about 4X as much as typical 1.5mm thick cowhide, on a square-foot basis.

Splitters are not cheap pieces of equipment, but it would cost much less overall to buy a splitter and work in cowhide, than it would to not buy a splitter and work in kangaroo that didn't need splitting. And for some uses, even kangaroo is split down: the roo used for purse and wallet linings, for example.

--------

As far as "what is second-best to kangaroo", lots of golf gloves are made out of cabretta leather. It is fairly thin but still strong (though not nearly as much as roo would be). Judging from finished glove prices, a pair of cabretta golfing gloves would cost about one-third what a pair of roo gloves would.

I haven't asked for it at the local shop.

I haven't heard of any whipmakers using it, either--but just about ALL golfing gloves are made from it. There must be a reason.

~

[troy]

hi geoff

For the basis of a riding crop, you could use the same stuff I use for the stock of a stock whip, i.e 10 inches of copper tubing, throught which you push 21 inches of round ground steel rod (21 inches being the length of the stock) then braid over it all with 8 string (cowhide 6mm wide).

the copper tubing is just there to help make a sort of taper appear, but you don't have to use it or use thicker walled tubing to increase the taper, either way you need the steel for the strength.

hope it helps

[entiendo]

I'm going to add my 2 cents. I've been braiding about a year and a half now so I'm not sure how to classify myself as far as skill level but, I tried other kinds of hides and I always came back to kangaroo. Cow hide is either to thick or to wide. I tried goat and I still have it here, cut but unused. Now rawhide is a fine product, I love the looks of it and I love to look at the finished pieces of art that the members here post, and I even hope to try a bit of rawhide braiding myself at some point but it isn't as easy to work with as roo. And I could totally see a nice plaited black kangaroo crop. Nice thin leather, cut and flattened to perfection.

I'm going to find a picture of one of my very first projects I did on my own, I even cut my own string.

The natural leash was my first leash. It wasn't my best because I was trying to figure out turn backs at the time, but the braiding is pretty smooth for a braider that was only braiding maybe a few months. The brown/whiskey leash was my second leash and turned out pretty nice.

I've even used less than perfect string and after it's been rolled I couldn't even tell. That's the nature of roo, it makes a beginner look good! Of course I'm convinced there is a certain amount of love that needs to be added as well. I love braiding so I work really hard at making beautiful pieces, but the roo really helps!

[Geoff]

Thanks again for the input and advice.

Entiendo,

I love those leashes. Did you braid around a core & if so, what did you use?

[entiendo]

Thanks again for the input and advice.

Entiendo,

I love those leashes. Did you braid around a core & if so, what did you use?

Just a nylon core. I think those are 3/32" string with a 1/8" core.