baretta px storm

[JoeS]

Hi,

We had a detective in the shop today that is looking to have alterations done on a holster for what he said was a new issue baretta px storm. He says they're having a hard time finding holsters with a snap strap that won't allow someone to get it out of his holster on him and showed me how the strap can be slipped by force forward over the hammer allowing it to be removed from a shoulder rig he uses. Seems odd to get issued a weapon without a secure holster but I don't have much knowledge on the subject and would like to learn more. Any suggestions to a flatlander for books or resources on modern holster making?

thanks,

joe

[Denster]

The function of the retention strap on a shoulder rig is to keep the gun from falling out of the holster not protect from gun grabs. The way the shoulder rig is worn on the body pretty much precludes the use of the mechanisms used on the level II and III retention holsters worn on a duty belt. If weapon retention is a concern then stay away from shoulder rigs and go with a good high ride strong side belt rig.

[Lobo]

With your description of the holster it would appear that the officer is carrying a handgun in a holster made for another weapon, especially given his comment about having trouble finding a holster. Sometimes this works, but it certainly not the ideal situation. Occasionally, a holster made for one handgun and used with another will actually interfere with proper operation of safeties or other features.

I have seen shoulder holsters that ride vertically, horizontally, and upside down. Some have used springs for retention, some have used straps with snaps or thumb-breaks, and some have used elastic. None of those designs were what would be considered high retention models.

If the retention strap can be forced over the hammer, it sounds like the strap is simply too long. Drilling out the snap and mounting a new snap at a position to hold securely might work. Even at that, if the holster was not originally designed and made for that model of handgun I would probably not make such alterations, just to avoid potential liability issues.

[JoeS]

Denster....he did mention that he didn't like belt rigs because of his belly....the thing poking him when sitting in the car....a big dude....and he liked not having to about take his pants off to remove it....don't know what level 2 and 3 retention is, and being that uninformed, I don't want to waste your guys time asking questions that I should try to learn about first. He sounded like a narcotics guy but what the heck, he could be anyone with a badge around here....I was more interested in the thought of making the guy a holster that fit right, but my search here made me think there aren't many books out there on the subject. Anything I can get from you guys who know helps a lot in whether I want to deal with these type of things. We get a fair amout of law enforcement in the shop for snaps and stuff and see a market for holsters for them but I'm not sure I want to until I know more.

Thanks.

Lobo....I had not thought about the liability issue....and it's not my shop so I'll definately run that by the boss....I have an opportunity to do all the custom work at a small shoe/leather repair/shoe retail shop in an upscale area here and got surprised by the demand for it. My good problem is sorting out what I can do/learn to do with the skills I have, for this market, in the given time I have available. I'd rather not grind shoes if I had the choice and I'm kinda packing in the learning curve here so as not to miss an opportunity, but won't do just anything for the cash. I was hoping to get some feedback from skilled folks and for that I thank you for.

joe

[Denster]

Joe

I dont know of any books on making holsters for duty use or concealed carry. Most of the custom makers have a LE background and know from experience what works and doesn't. The level II and III retention holsters all use some type of reention on the trigger guard that requires some pretty forceful twisting and manipulation of the weapon to clear leather. Not something that would work with a shoulder rig. Bianchi had a devise for awhile that would work on a shoulder rig. It had a button that engaged the trigger guard on holstering and a lever attached to the button that when triggered by the users fore or ring finger released it. It worked after a fashion but not terribly secure.

I would suggest browsing the websites of the major manufacturors and custom makers of this type of holster is about the only way to get an idea of what is viable.

If your customer can only wear a shoulder rig then he needs to have a plan to guard against a gun grab. Tactics beats equipment every time. I once saw a 120lb female rip my partners Python clean out of the side of a Safariland belt holster. He had a plan and got his weapon back.

[JoeS]

Denster,

Thanks for taking the time to explain the various retention devices. The first thing that popped into my mind when I started reading your post was what a great project it would be for a retired LE guy to put together a book on the subject. The history of like "Packing Iron" or even a how-to like some of the Tandy books. Until then, I'll have to take your advice and study what is already being made and used. Offering these types of things carries a bit more responsibility than a knife sheath for the casual user and I won't be touching it until or if I can gain enough knowledge to feel comfortable with it. The detective that came in the shop was a real character that struck me as no stranger to situations like you explained and my hat is off to you guys who spend your working lives dragging all the crap off the streets in a job which seems to be getting harder all the time.

Thanks,

joe