How are embossing wheels designed and made?

[jmorton]

My Father was a machinist & tool and die maker, so I have a vague idea of elementary machining processes, but I have been wondering how the wheels for the various embossing machines are designed and created. I am guessing that the design is created as a flat drawing, and then the drawing is cut into the the wheel, but how do they make the pattern fit exactly on the circumference of the wheel? Can anyone cast some light on this for me?

Could a person make a master on something similar to a rubber band laid flat and then simply stretch it over the appropriate size wheel and then use something to scan that and create the wheel in metal?

Any ideas are appreciated.

John Morton

[thorr]

My Father was a machinist & tool and die maker, so I have a vague idea of elementary machining processes, but I have been wondering how the wheels for the various embossing machines are designed and created. I am guessing that the design is created as a flat drawing, and then the drawing is cut into the the wheel, but how do they make the pattern fit exactly on the circumference of the wheel? Can anyone cast some light on this for me?

Could a person make a master on something similar to a rubber band laid flat and then simply stretch it over the appropriate size wheel and then use something to scan that and create the wheel in metal?

Any ideas are appreciated.

John Morton

i always assumed it was wax casting

[UKRay]

Great question, John. I'd like to get some custom wheels made for my Tippmann embossing machine but don't know where to start looking for a maker.

Ray

[terrahyd]

I am sure these new fancy comp'' driven machines do most today but...used to be done by hand ingraving ..a lost art I suppose...and the pattern was hand drawn then transfered to a wheel.. much like we do on leather .....Doc.....

[CampbellRandall]

I've seen these done a few ways. We do some work in house, but the detailed dies we outsource to an engraving company.

CAST ROLLS

The dies you purchase from companies like Tandy and Tippman are cast, which is why they are so cheap.

They make a mold from an original engraved roll in zinc or brass. The results have less detail and strength compared to engraved brass.

MAG WRAPPED ROLLS

This is a cheap and easy roll, but is the weakest and least detailed. For limited use I have seen companies take a chemical etched magnesium plate (only good for 2D art), and then wrap it around a roll.

MACHINE ENGRAVED BRASS (2D)

With the right equipment and talent, you can machine engrave a roll. For simple designs, like a meandering pattern or barbwire, a CNC mill can cut the pattern if you have the time and software to program it. The artwork needs to be sized to the circumference of the roll, so some manipulation (shrinking or stretching) may be needed to make it fit. This is normally done on the design/programming end. Some of the corners may need to be finished by hand.

HAND ENGRAVED BRASS (3D)

This is how most detailed dies are still made. Even simple 2D patterns require a skilled hand to finish the job. The guys we use have been doing it for 20+ years, and its an art form, just like hand tooling. I've been asked many times, "with today's technology, can't you just scan a picture and a CNC can spit out a roll." As someone that has experience programming CNC equipment, its not that easy.

You can make a 3D scan, but then each tool path needs to be created and proper tools selected for each little cut - we are talking about hours of setup. Even something as simple as a basket weave pattern has a lot going on. Then you have limits on what tools you can use, and how they can cut. Undercuts, like on a floral pattern, are near impossible. A machine cannot replicate what human hands can do - not without a lot of training. So for the really good rolls, hand engraved are the way to go.

THE DESIGNS

The best way to design a roll is hand tool it. Then whoever makes the roll has a clear understanding of what to do.

Digital designs (line art or pictures) are the second choice, but you will need to make clear what you want the finished pattern to look like.

[Trevor]

Hi there one and all.

I had the desperate need to get a basketweave pattern wheel made a couple of years ago and I found the man who could do the job in the Yellow pages. He was a very talented chap and I asked him many many questions of how this could be achieved.

Firstly I gave him the two basketweave embossing stamps (the Basket and the scallop) and he made large copies of these in plastic. Im talking the size of the palm of your hand.

He then worked out mathematically how many of these baskets (rows) would fit into a circle of brass.

He then used and Industrial pentograph machine to simply copy the engraved model in negative (the large plastic ones) onto the brass roller. This of course takes some skill to get the depth and angle and continuity perfect.

Below is a photo of the roller and what it can do. I have two now which does 2 1/4 belts and 1 3/4 belts.

These wheels are no good unless you have the guides to align the leather onto the roller. He used a collett at both ends. Also I found a cheap jewellers rolling mill from India and the rollers fit into this and work perfectly. I simply wet the top of the VEG leather and feed the leather in one end and out it comes the other end.

I no longer have to sit and basketweave my belts by hand.... Fantastic

Cheers

Trevor

"Way down under"

[jmorton]

Trevor,

When you looked him up, what was he listed as? An engraver or something else? This seems like what I have in mind. Here in Q8, I see a lot of geometric patterns, but they sure are different from the ones in the TLF catalog. I was thinking about making a few items with indigenous designs and see if there is any interest. If it makes any money, I am thinking that having a roller or a plate will make life much easier.

The roller you have looks like the way to go, if I come up with something that "goes".

Is the Brass roller durable?

Thanks,

John Morton

[Trevor]

Yeah Im not sure what he listed himself as. He used to make lino flooring embossed rollers and soap embossing tools etc. The brass is durable and he said it would last for ages. I suggested tool steel but he said the brass would be fine.

Cheers

Trevor

"Way Down Under"

[Jordan]

I showed a tandy roll to my father-in-law a machinist, and he said it was cast bronze not all brass. Whatever metal is used the iron content will react with wet leather turning it black. Something to do with the tanning chemicals and reaction to iron.