Tippmann Aerostitch Problem (Not Making Stitch)

[luke213]

Alright guys I've got a question for those of you out there with more experience on this machine than me:) (which would be pretty much anyone since I'm just getting things working).

First I'll give a bit of backstory, I saw this aero for sale fairly locally to Houston and picked it up for a good price. Lady's husband had passed away who was a saddle maker and had two of these machines. One functioning which she had sold and this one. I took the gamble and brought it home, sent Tippman a picture and told them to ship me everything I was missing. I also learned that mine apparently(according to Tippmann) never had a manual with vacuum locations and routing since it was a late model and had a new system used. So I also got a hand drawn diagram of where things were supposed to go.

Long story short I spent the last two days getting everything working, lots of little headaches, I'm sure the guy who owned it just robbed parts from one to fix the other. So it works well at least everything moves as it should. (I'm pretty sure) I don't have any real sewing machine experience, my wife is a seamstress but has never worked on a machine like this one.

The symptom is that when I press the pedal the needle goes down all the way and if I'm holding the needle thread very loosely it will pickup the bobbin thread(even a little tension and it won't). Then I string those out behind grab some scrap leather and try to stitch. Needle goes through the leather but doesn't pick up thread off the bobbin to complete the lock stitch. If I hold the thread in hand it will lock but only with very very light tension(almost it jamming because of double stitching). I'm running 277 on top and 207 on bottom at the moment, from what I'm reading that's actually too light for my holsters. First before I worry about that though I need to get the thing to actually throw down a stitch;)

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. I've been in touch with Tippmann but I didn't finish fixing everything else until they closed for the day. So I'm out another day and I still don't have a working machine:) I do however know the pneumatic system in this Tippman back to front and could draw another diagram of it after fiddling so much with it;)

Thanks again!

Luke

[TwinOaks]

I don't have an Aero, but from general experience with my little machines, and from reading on here.....

It sounds like the timing is off, or that the hook isn't close enough to the needle. Possibly that the needle is in backwards.

My reason for this is that you describe " even a little tension" causing a skip. The hook has to pass close enought to, even graze, the needle to pick up the thread. If there's too much gap, the hook passes harmlessly over the thread on the needle, missing it, and there's nothing to wrap around the bobbin thread.

Do check to see if the needle is in backwards, because it would mean that the thread is in the wrong place.

If everything is moving as it should, it sounds like the valves are all working correctly.

I'm sure Art or Barra (or sewmun, wizcrafts, CobraSteve, and many others) will chime in, and they might can give you a more specific answer.

[luke213]

Thanks for the reply appreciate it;)

The needle is in per the directions in the manual best I can tell. The little I think they call it scribe or something, but the area that is ground from the needle is facing the set screw that holds it in place. I tried by advice elsewhere rotating the needle a few degrees one way or the other without any result either. It could very well be timing but I don't honestly know how the timing in these would be adjusted anyone have any idea?

Any other suggestions would also be appreciated it sure feels like it must be something small that I'm just either missing because I'm really not familiar with sewing machines or I guess maybe that's just wishful thinking;)

Thanks again!

Luke

[Denster]

Luke

A couple of things to check. First did you have the bobbin shuttle and cae out of the machine and thoroughly clean it inside and lube and reassemble? Second are you using the correct size needle. For 277 you need a 200S? Third is the needle installed properly? It needs the flat to be at a 90Deg angle facing the inside of the throat which is to your right as you are sitting at the machine. You do have to hols the thread for the first three stitches but not any tension just no slack.

These are simple almost bulletproof machines. Oh one other thing you do have it set to stitch forward don't you. If the stitch length adjustment lever is upright there is no feed and it just runs in place. Hope this helps.

[Denster]

Luke

As to the timing. Watch the Boss videos on the Tippmann website it will show you how the shuttle is supposed to be in. The aerostitch is just a Boss on pneumatic steroids.

[luke213]

Luke

A couple of things to check. First did you have the bobbin shuttle and cae out of the machine and thoroughly clean it inside and lube and reassemble? Second are you using the correct size needle. For 277 you need a 200S? Third is the needle installed properly? It needs the flat to be at a 90Deg angle facing the inside of the throat which is to your right as you are sitting at the machine. You do have to hols the thread for the first three stitches but not any tension just no slack.

These are simple almost bulletproof machines. Oh one other thing you do have it set to stitch forward don't you. If the stitch length adjustment lever is upright there is no feed and it just runs in place. Hope this helps.

I actually was missing the bobbin shuttle and bought one new from Tippmann with the other parts. Tom Black had told me to just use a little air tool oil around that area but keep it fairly clean so that's what I did.

Here is a picture of the needle threaded, I believe it is correct. This is taken facing kinda offset in front of the bobbin area. (ignore the kydex presser foot, it was a test just to get something in there since Tippmann didn't get the foot into my order, so it's in route. Works so far in testing.)

Thanks;)

Luke

Oh and on timing I've seen how it's supposed to work to a degree but I guess I don't understand. Timing is the rotation of the bobbin in relation to the needle stroke correct? So if the bobbin say was only rotated not far enough when the needle hit the bottom of it's travel would cause it to not pick up the bobbin thread?

Thanks again.

Forgot to add that it is a 200 sized needle(according to stamp near the top of the needle).

Luke

[Denster]

I actually was missing the bobbin shuttle and bought one new from Tippmann with the other parts. Tom Black had told me to just use a little air tool oil around that area but keep it fairly clean so that's what I did.

Here is a picture of the needle threaded, I believe it is correct. This is taken facing kinda offset in front of the bobbin area. (ignore the kydex presser foot, it was a test just to get something in there since Tippmann didn't get the foot into my order, so it's in route. Works so far in testing.)

Thanks;)

Luke

Oh and on timing I've seen how it's supposed to work to a degree but I guess I don't understand. Timing is the rotation of the bobbin in relation to the needle stroke correct? So if the bobbin say was only rotated not far enough when the needle hit the bottom of it's travel would cause it to not pick up the bobbin thread?

Thanks again.

Forgot to add that it is a 200 sized needle(according to stamp near the top of the needle).

Luke

Yes that is correct. You appear to have the needle installed correctly but it looks a little low maybe 1/8 in are you sure you have it all the way into the needle bar? When the needle is all the way up the bobbin should be about 10 degrees right of top dead center as you are facing it. With the needle all the way down it should go past 180 degrees. Also that needle looks like a plain 200 rather than a chisel point 200S. If it is and you are trying to sew any weight of veg tan you will have problems. If you have some canvas or light suede try sewing that and see if you get a stitch.

[luke213]

Yeah on the needle not being a chisel point that's apparently what you get when you tell them what you want and they are wrong;) That said I need to order some needles any suggestions on where to get them? Or just through Tippmann?

Needle seems to be all the way into the needle bad I wonder if it's the angle making it look weird maybe? The bobbin is oriented pretty much spot on with what your saying. I just tried some 4oz or so suede and no go with that either.

What should the tension on the bobbin be? Since I just got it new I know that bit in particular hasn't been used and is likely not set properly(and side question could that be at all related).

Thanks again for the suggestions;)

Luke

[Denster]

On the needles. Weaver has a little better price but not much might just as well get them from Tippmann. They darn near last forever anyway. As to bobbin tension about 1lb or a little less, by feel that is flows freely out with only a little felt tension. Top tension a good place to start is back both all the way off then just down till they touch and put two turns on the secondary and 1&1/2 on the primary. Then make adjustments on the primary till the stitch looks like you want. When you get it stitching that is. I'm at a loss for other ideas although Tom should be able to walk you right through it. If the needle picks up the bobbin thread with only light tension but sewing puts too much tension on it sounds like a spacing issue and the hook isn't passing close enough to the needle thats only an issue of a few thousandths. I'd take the shuttle out wipe it and the spacer ring down good reinstall and try again. Me I'm off to bed. Don't be too worried once you get it going you'll really like it. They are a bear and will darn near sew plywood. By the way for holsters I use 346 top and 277 bottom makes a nice plump stitch. 277 and 207 I use for belts. Plenty stroong enough for either just doesn't look as nice. When you find out what the problem is be sure and let me know.

[luke213]

That's a question for ya, on the 346 does that need a bigger needle and if so what one? I really prefer a thick stitch I'm used to handstitching and to be honest this 277 looks freaking tiny compared to what I normally use;)

I did some more fiddling and got no where I'm done for the night tomorrow is a fresh day.

Thanks again!

Luke

On the needles. Weaver has a little better price but not much might just as well get them from Tippmann. They darn near last forever anyway. As to bobbin tension about 1lb or a little less, by feel that is flows freely out with only a little felt tension. Top tension a good place to start is back both all the way off then just down till they touch and put two turns on the secondary and 1&1/2 on the primary. Then make adjustments on the primary till the stitch looks like you want. When you get it stitching that is. I'm at a loss for other ideas although Tom should be able to walk you right through it. If the needle picks up the bobbin thread with only light tension but sewing puts too much tension on it sounds like a spacing issue and the hook isn't passing close enough to the needle thats only an issue of a few thousandths. I'd take the shuttle out wipe it and the spacer ring down good reinstall and try again. Me I'm off to bed. Don't be too worried once you get it going you'll really like it. They are a bear and will darn near sew plywood. By the way for holsters I use 346 top and 277 bottom makes a nice plump stitch. 277 and 207 I use for belts. Plenty stroong enough for either just doesn't look as nice. When you find out what the problem is be sure and let me know.