Newbie In Need Of Help

[BackintheSaddle]

I bought a saddle from my daughter's riding instructor - I haven't been on the back of a horse in over 20 years. I learned to ride English, but want to get in a Western Saddle. I bought this saddle and put Leather CPR on it, put some dye on it, removed the diamond conchos (there was no way silver polish would clean them up). I was told to get black hair dye and use it on the leather to dye the areas that were very worn. I have two problems - got some of the hair dye on the seat which was Red, and I believe the stitching for the seat design is gone. I don't think that is a big problem. I would like to try to redye the seat part or purchase Red Suede to resew over it and give it a new "seat". I don't sew, and don't want to screw anything up. I decided to buy my own saddle so that when I ride and am taking my refresher lessons I don't have to worry about readjusting the stirrups because someone else has been using the saddle. Plus, I plan to purchase my own horse in a few years for myself and if my daughter sticks with the riding (she is 4), then we will eventually buy her own horse as well.

I do not have the $$$ to go out and buy a brand new saddle (even used but brand new to me) right now. If you could point me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it. Apparently my pictures exceed the size limit. Will have to see what I can do to fix that problem. I have no idea how old the saddle is, who made it, etc. There is the number 5091 stamped behind the seat on the skirt just below the center point of the cantle.

[BackintheSaddle]

Today I thought I would apply another Leather CPR application to the saddle. The screws came loose and the leather was very loose and I had some staples come loose. One of the leather pieces is off, so I decided to remove the screws at the edge of the seat and this is what I found. Having no experience with this whatsoever, I don't know if this means the tree is damaged or if it is repairable and can be restored. I don't now how old the saddle is, what make, or brand. The first picture is a bit blurry. Hopefully you can point me in the right direction. I would like to get this fixed up so that it can be used. If not, then at least I only spent $50 for the saddle.

Thanks!

Edited July 30, 2010 by BackintheSaddle

[dirtclod]

I've fixed a few trees that were broke like yours. Take the skirt off and tie that corner of the seat back. Then put 2 or 3 tacks little nails above the break on both sides. Glue the tree and the broken piece with Elmers or something like that. Loop a couple of rubber bands around the nails. Set the broken piece back where it belongs and pull the rubber bands on the front set of nails till their tight. Leave it for a day or two. After it drys pull the nails and fiberglass both sides of the tree where it was broke with fiberglass cloth. Let that dry and put it back togeather.

[horsewreck]

The pictures aren't clear but it appears to be a mass produced saddle with a broken Ralide (plastic) tree. One of the problems with ralide trees is, after around 25 or 30 years the material they are made of dries out and starts to fall apart, fracture, and decompose. The tree can be replaced, but why would you want to? The last time I changed a ralide tree was a couple of years ago and the tree alone cost @ $125, plus several hundred dollars labor. These plastic trees unlike wood trees should "never" be repaired period! Your saddle was a entry level pleasure saddle when new and did not cost much, I would take it back to the person who sold it to you and get your 50 bucks back and start shopping for a better saddle. By all means when you are thinking of buying a saddle, take it to a saddler and have it checked before you invest your money. I hope this is of some help to you.....

[alb]

I can't see the pictures clearly enough to give advice on this particular saddle. That being said, our shop has repaired ralide trees that have stood up well over time. Tom repaired a ralide tree which had broken in several places when a horse rolled over onto it. He glued and nailed pieces back together and fiberglassed the whole thing. It came back a year later when another horse rolled over onto it and this time the horn had broken but the rest of the tree was fine.

The leather on this saddle looks like it's in good shape.

I agree that you should probably take it to a saddler. You might find the repair is going to cost you more than you want to spend.

Ann

[horsewreck]

A ralide tree that has been around for several decades as this saddle has should "never" be repaired. We are not talking about a horse wreck, but old age. I have seen these old trees break up into enough pieces to fill a five gallon bucket. They get old as this saddle has and the plastic dries out and they are done for it . I am speaking from over 30 years of experience with these trees, having changed more of them than other any saddler in Texas, because a lot of saddle guys won't touch them. Ralide is a different animal than the wood trees which we repair on a regular basis. If a ralide tree is old and broke, raplace it or junk it...... Jeff

[alb]

I appreciate your post. I wonder what the practical lifespan of Ralide is.

Thanks,

Ann

[dirtclod]

Well i may be wrong but it sure looks like a wood tree in the first picture with a ralide ground seat / strainer plate. The tree looks like one that was covered with that cheese cloth that was used on lots of the older saddles.

A clear picture by the orignal poster would solve that question.

Edited July 31, 2010 by dirtclod

[Denise]

The question in my mind is- if it is broken there, where else is it broken and how badly? If screws and staples are pulling out, I sure wouldn't trust the integrity of tree or the quality of the rest of the saddle either. It needs to be totally checked out before one small area is fixed and called good.

[horsewreck]

I appreciate your post. I wonder what the practical lifespan of Ralide is.

Thanks,

Ann

Ann, Based on what we have seen the life span is 30 years give or take. They seem to start cracking between staple, and nail holes at that age then, they get brittle all over...... Jeff

[horsewreck]

Well i may be wrong but it sure looks like a wood tree in the first picture with a ralide ground seat / strainer plate. The tree looks like one that was covered with that cheese cloth that was used on lots of the older saddles.

A clear picture by the orignal poster would solve that question.

Dirtclod, the photos aren't the best but to me it looks like an early ralide tree that does have a plastic ground seat strainer as the early ralide trees had. At some point they started forming the ground seat as part of the tree. That two piece ralide tree, strainer deal tells me that is a very early version of the plastic tree, and is past its useful life. If it were a canvas covered wood tree it might be able to be fixed and then glassed over. But it lookes more like ralide to me..... Jeff

[alb]

Ann, Based on what we have seen the life span is 30 years give or take. They seem to start cracking between staple, and nail holes at that age then, they get brittle all over...... Jeff

So do you repair newer ralide or just have a policy of no ralide repairs at all?

Ann

[horsewreck]

So do you repair newer ralide or just have a policy of no ralide repairs at all?

Ann

Ann, When I first started working on saddles a ralide tree cost about $35. so for a lot of years it was cheaper to replace the tree than to repair it. Given the shorter life span of a ralide tree, replacement rather than repair always seemed to be the smart thing to do. Because ralide trees are most often used in low end mass produced saddles I often suggest to the owner not to fix the saddle at all, and buy a different saddle as this course of action will cost less in the long run. Because ralide is a different animal than wood based trees I have never thought it wise to repair new or old ralide and as Denise pointed out in her post on this subject whenever we have any break in a tree the saddler should check the whole tree for problems, not spot repair. In addition I have "never" opened up a saddle with a ralide tree that has been repaired by someone a while back that the repair has held tight for a long period of time. Long story short on ralide treed saddles I say replace the tree or scrap the saddle..... Jeff

[alb]

I appreciate hearing the 'long story'. I have been doing saddle work for less than a year. I work with a gentleman who has been doing it for almost 50 years and he has a tremendous wealth of knowledge and experience. That being said the more experienced, knowledgeable people I can connect with and learn from the better.

Thanks,

Ann

and yes, of course when we do fixes on trees, the entire tree is checked and repaired.

Ann, When I first started working on saddles a ralide tree cost about $35. so for a lot of years it was cheaper to replace the tree than to repair it. Given the shorter life span of a ralide tree, replacement rather than repair always seemed to be the smart thing to do. Because ralide trees are most often used in low end mass produced saddles I often suggest to the owner not to fix the saddle at all, and buy a different saddle as this course of action will cost less in the long run. Because ralide is a different animal than wood based trees I have never thought it wise to repair new or old ralide and as Denise pointed out in her post on this subject whenever we have any break in a tree the saddler should check the whole tree for problems, not spot repair. In addition I have "never" opened up a saddle with a ralide tree that has been repaired by someone a while back that the repair has held tight for a long period of time. Long story short on ralide treed saddles I say replace the tree or scrap the saddle..... Jeff