Effort Vs. Reward

[abn]

John, if you're truly concerned about "those other guys" getting more for their work, then I think you may have to put more priority on your product's image -- i.e., it's perceived value. Keep in mind that perceived value can have very little correlation to real value. Take a BMW, for example. A better car than a Honda? Maybe. But is it worth twice or three times as much? Probably not. Both will get you down the road in relative comfort and safety. But there's a certain notion of style imparted to driving a BMW.

When you're prepared to put image over practicality, and sacrifice some quality for appearance, then you'll be ready to charge more for your work. Think like an artist, instead of a craftsman -- experiment, take chances, pay more attention to what catches the eye... Forget about functionality for a moment. You've already got those skills down pat.

If I were you, I'd build a $3,500 case. You've already stated that with your current methods, your work isn't worth that much (or you'd feel uncomfortable charging it). Well, what would you have to do to really make something worth $3,500? Think outside of the box. Let your imagination run wild. And then build something that you'll put a $3,500 price tag on. This experiment might take you to a whole new level.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

And think what may happen if somebody buys that case for $3,500.

In reality what would you stand to lose? Make a case that is similar to the other guys in the amount of embellishment, and see if someone bites. For a lot of folks $$$$$=quality. You don't have to scrimp on quality, just up the price, and give it an expensive sounding name. I wouldn't call it the U.S. National debt, but something expensive/valuable non the less. The Rockefeller, Maximilian, Diamond grade, Platinum edition, The "I'm gonna be gone someday, and you are gonna wish you bought one when they were $3,500, and not the $7,000 their gonna get on EBay " edition , etc...

I realize it is not all about money. But ones pride can be hurt when you know in your heart that you make a better item than someone else, yet they sell their's for more, or have better recognition.

[JohnBarton]

John, if you're truly concerned about "those other guys" getting more for their work, then I think you may have to put more priority on your product's image -- i.e., it's perceived value. Keep in mind that perceived value can have very little correlation to real value. Take a BMW, for example. A better car than a Honda? Maybe. But is it worth twice or three times as much? Probably not. Both will get you down the road in relative comfort and safety. But there's a certain notion of style imparted to driving a BMW.

When you're prepared to put image over practicality, and sacrifice some quality for appearance, then you'll be ready to charge more for your work. Think like an artist, instead of a craftsman -- experiment, take chances, pay more attention to what catches the eye... Forget about functionality for a moment. You've already got those skills down pat.

If I were you, I'd build a $3,500 case. You've already stated that with your current methods, your work isn't worth that much (or you'd feel uncomfortable charging it). Well, what would you have to do to really make something worth $3,500? Think outside of the box. Let your imagination run wild. And then build something that you'll put a $3,500 price tag on. This experiment might take you to a whole new level.

I am not concerned about it.  I was obsessed by it with the attitude of "why can't they SEE the deficiencies????"  Why God Why???  :-)  

But like I said I am way over it.  I'd rather charge what I feel good about charging and make the wage I want to make for the work I am delivering.  That way NO ONE feels shafted at any time.  I am CERTAIN that at some point someone got one of those "overpriced" cases and wasn't too happy with it but kept quiet for various reasons.  In fact I have the emails to prove that it has happened a few times.

You make the same point that I did though.  If I build a case with a $3500 price tag then it will be obvious WHY it's worth $3500.  I mean clearly things like using real gator, elephant, zebra etc will drive up the price, I can inlay with exotic woods, I can get really detailed and crazy with the tooling, I could use 3oz leather and layer on the filigree to make shadowbox art in leather, etc.....  And IF I did things like that then I would charge accordingly.

I will always charge whatever I feel is a fair price.  And I guess other people do the same.  If the buyer feels like the price is good then it's all good.   I refuse to be upset any more over this sort of comparison because in truth it never ends.  If I charge $5000 for a case then someday someone will come along and make and sell a case for $6000.

it's like Kate said, better to have a bigger heap.  I'd rather have a market where there are more people willing to spend $3500 on a case than less.  Why?  Because that gives me and everyone else a much broader spectrum to work from.  Imagine if the ceiling on leather cue cases was $500.  There would be a lot less choice if people were only willing to spend $500 max on a cue case.  The most I ever thought about charging was $2500 and so having a certain number of buyers willing to give me another $1000 on top of it does in fact give my imagination room to play.

Ok getting back to Earth I have to go back to work and make some more $500 cases............

[JohnBarton]

And think what may happen if somebody buys that case for $3,500.

  In reality what would you stand to lose?  Make a case that is similar to the other guys in the amount of embellishment, and see if someone bites. For a lot of folks $$$=quality.  You don't have to scrimp on quality, just up the price, and give it an expensive sounding name. I wouldn't call it the U.S. National debt, but something expensive/valuable non the less. The Rockefeller, Maximilian, Diamond grade, Platinum edition,  The "I'm gonna be gone someday, and you are gonna wish you bought one when they were $3,500, and not the $7,000 their gonna get on EBay "  edition , etc...

I realize it is not all about money. But ones pride can be hurt when you know in your heart that you make a better item than someone else, yet they sell their's for more, or have better recognition.

I am already past that point.  I can't make a case similar to the embellishment that the other guy puts out there and charge more than $1000 for it.  Not and look someone in the eye afterward.  

Now having said that I want to reiterate that I DON'T KNOW what the other guy is paying to have the tooling done.  Honestly for all I know he is getting charged $1500 a case just for the tooling, I don't know.   

For example it's on my list to have Bobocat do the tooling on one of our cases.  I am going to send him the pattern and when he is done he will send me the bill.  Now, knowing his work and what he charges I may have to go to the bank for a small loan to pay off that invoice.  But I am sure that the resulting art will be worth every penny AND I will charge what he charged me plus what I want to earn for my effort and risk.  So for all I know that may end up being my first $3000 case.  

It's funny but my job title with Sterling (my day job) is "The Minister of Propaganda".  Really, that's what's on my business card.  And I am probably one of the most straight up tell-it-like-is damn-the-consequences type people around.  I try not to "spin" things too much and a lot of times end up revealing more of the inner workings of how things are done than I should.

So I am not the guy who can market through embellishment.  I have to have a pretty solid foundation that anyone can stand on and test.  I am prone to hyperbole, the most protective, easiest to use, durablest ;-)  most durable, etc...but like I said I feel that I can compete against anyone else in a case teardown and come out on top.  They say it's not bragging if you can do it.  So in that sense I feel pretty confident in our product and I don't need to make it more than it is to sell it.  If I did that then I'd feel pretty icky inside.

And believe me, I know what icky feels like when you sell something that isn't all that great but you convinced the buy that it is.  My obsession with quality comes from having sold substandard stuff and pretty much lying about the specs as well as having been on the the other side as a buyer too many times and believing the salesman only to find out I got taken for a ride.

I have what I like to call the living room inspection approach.

Back when I was younger whenever I'd get a new cue I would sit down in my living room and inspect it.  I would fondle it and carress it and get to know it intimately.  And if anything was out of place on that cue then I would know it.  Not that I would mention it to anyone but I would know about it.  Then I'd prepare a bunch of excuses in case someone noticed the defect, I'd make excuses for the maker, basically anything to not make me look stupid for having paid for a cue with a defect.

So my attitude now is that I never want one of my customers to be sitting in their living room and doing the same thing with one of my cases and having that same feeling.  I want them never to have regrets about buying one of my cases.  And one way to do that is to simply price them fairly as to what I can feel good about.

No doubt about it it does still hurt when someone get's x-amount more for less than what I build.  But that's life and there is a reason that they are where they are.  For me I will set my goals at getting to where I want to be without regard to where they are and what they are doing.

Unless of course they cross me and then the gloves are off (or on actually as it's easier to dig in and fight with gloves on).

And interjecting another random rambling thought - has anyone here ever really shown any appreciation for the leather work glove?   Can you imagine the amount of things we humans have been able to accomplish while wearing good worn in leather work gloves.  I swear when I put on mine I feel like I could lift or hang onto anything........

All right done.  Distraction over.

Later.

[alb]

The kind of distraction that makes a difference for other people. I like hearing you talk. (or type).

Ann