A Very 'sticky' Question

[UKRay]

As one of two of you may know, I'm interested in the history of leatherworking and using old techniques (sometimes with a modern spin). Right now I'm researching old fashioned glues and pastes. If you have any information and/or recipes I'd be most grateful to know more.

I do have a couple of specific questions:

Does anyone know how to make old fashioned 'rabbit glue'? I believe it might have been made from rabbit skins but can't imagine how. Is it the same as the 'hot' wood glue used by cabinet makers?

Does anyone know what sort of glue or paste was used by book-binders to stick leather to paper? Is there a modern equivalent?

Cheers,

Ray

[TwinOaks]

Ray, I'm continually both amazed and confounded by the questions you generate. But, I can appreciate your interest in leather history......heck, you've been around for most of it, right?

http://www.ehow.com/about_4620962_what-rabbit-skin-glue.html

My Google-Fu is strong today, and there are apparently even some videos on how to make Rabbit Skin Glue. Short version- Let a rabbit skin swell in water, then melt in a double boiler, being careful not to actually boil. Apply hot. Seems like Rabbit glue is used for all kinds of things from sizing painters canvas to ..........binding books.

[JRedding]

I'm not old enough ( thank God ) to have any first hand experience with the kind of adhesives you're asking about but I have heard old saddlemakers talk about using hide glue. They described it as a powder you had to mix with water to make your own paste. It must have worked well enough it held everything together for a long time, but I never heard anyone say anything good about using it. Kinda off topic but someone might be interested to know that the guy I learned some from converted from hide glue to plain old white Elmers glue and used it for thirty years. I've never heard it discussed on here but it is a very good leather glue and you can do things with it you can't with any contact cement. It has the ability to dry and bond under wet leather with no air allowing you to put something together and position it exactly how you want it, not the grabby one chance you get with cement. The down side to it is everything has to be glued, weighted and set aside for a day to allow it to do it's thing. It's not as convenient as cement for most things but it is more convenient in the right circumstance, and a very cheap and accessible alternative to contact cement.

[UKRay]

I knew I was going to attract abuse... but this time you have it all wrong, Mike. My favorite cousin, Luke Hatley is the man you are thinking of, not me. We actually share the same birthday but I understand he has had one or two more than me. Don't say anything, but I'm almost sure he was the guy who invented rabbit glue though I don't like to ask... LOL

I know it is hard to believe, but I did take a look at the web before posting this question because I didn't find anything particularly helpful about how to make the stuff. Boiling rabbit skins - or not - seems a pretty loose set of instructions to me. I want something a tad more definitive. How long do you need to boil your bunny? What does the stuff look like when you have made it? How do you use it? Does it really work and has it got a use in my workshop today?

Thanks for your wise words, Jim. Nice to see there is one sensible person on here. Now that was more like it. Unfortunately, living in the UK, I have never heard of Elmer's glue - who is Elmer and what makes his glue special? Are we talking some kind of PVA adhesive here? Anything is better than contact adhesive... although the fumes do tend to give you a nice warm woozy feeling if you use it all afternoon with the windows closed...

So - anyone know where can I get ready made rabbit glue? An art shop? Ironmongers/hardware store? Builder's merchant? Where?

Ray

[tonyc1]

I knew I was going to attract abuse... but this time you have it all wrong, Mike. My favorite cousin, Luke Hatley is the man you are thinking of, not me. We actually share the same birthday but I understand he has had one or two more than me. Don't say anything, but I'm almost sure he was the guy who invented rabbit glue though I don't like to ask... LOL

I know it is hard to believe, but I did take a look at the web before posting this question because I didn't find anything particularly helpful about how to make the stuff. Boiling rabbit skins - or not - seems a pretty loose set of instructions to me. I want something a tad more definitive. How long do you need to boil your bunny? What does the stuff look like when you have made it? How do you use it? Does it really work and has it got a use in my workshop today?

Thanks for your wise words, Jim. Nice to see there is one sensible person on here. Now that was more like it. Unfortunately, living in the UK, I have never heard of Elmer's glue - who is Elmer and what makes his glue special? Are we talking some kind of PVA adhesive here? Anything is better than contact adhesive... although the fumes do tend to give you a nice warm woozy feeling if you use it all afternoon with the windows closed...

So - anyone know where can I get ready made rabbit glue? An art shop? Ironmongers/hardware store? Builder's merchant? Where?

Ray

Ray, many years ago when I went to school and attended "Wood Butchering" classes we used what was called Pearl Glue which we melted in a pot in boiling water. It had an awful odour but I think the teacher may have said it came from hides. Try Pearl Glue on Google and see what you get.

Kind regards, Tony.

[UKRay]

Ray, many years ago when I went to school and attended "Wood Butchering" classes we used what was called Pearl Glue which we melted in a pot in boiling water. It had an awful odour but I think the teacher may have said it came from hides. Try Pearl Glue on Google and see what you get.

Kind regards, Tony.

I used that pearl glue stuff at school too, Tony. What a pong!

(aside: I wasn't much of a woodworker and I'll never forget my old woodwork teacher who was a real character saying: "Damn and blast you boy, be careful with that wood, it doesn't grow on trees you know!")

I have a feeling that rabbit glue is going to be along the same lines as pearl glue but I've an idea the stuff now comes as a dry powder that can be mixed with water but needs to be heated before use. Much the same idea as pearl glue but a finer consistency more suited to restoration and museum reproduction work.

Anyone used Cascamite as a leather glue? (I hope I got the product right as I believe there is a 'heavy duty' laxative with a very similar name and we wouldn't want to use that now would we? LOL ).

Somehow, the idea of bunny boiling for real is almost too good to let go...

Ray

[rdb]

http://www.woodcraft.com/Category/1002086/Glues.aspx

[Denise]

Ray, It appears Elmer is a happy bull. You can tell that he is a bull because he has a ring in his nose, NOT because he has horns. Cows can have horns too! (Working hard to dispel another urban myth...)

[cem]

Hi Ray, hide glue is still used by alot of traditional woodworkers those who do french polishing and I know I've come across a forum where it was mentioned how it was made I think it may of been one of the Australian woodwork forums. rdb posted the link which covers most of the commercial hide glues I've seen, I can get the Titebond stuff in Australia so I would think the wood work shops in the UK would stock it as well.

Cheers,

Clair

[cem]

Hi again Ray, not the place I was thinking of but from what I remember it seems to be the same http://www.ronliskey.com/content/making-hide-glue and a brief explanation of making rabbit skin glue http://wiki.budgardr.org/villagers/oksana/recipe_for_making_rabbit_skin_glue

There also a few videos on youtube for making hide glue.

Hope this helps a bit

Cheers,

Clair