Questions On Dying/wet Forming

[Sister Stigmata]

Hi, I've been trying to learn leatherworking for a few months now. My goal is to make theatrical looking goth/metal type accessories so I've mostly been working with latigo with dyed veg-tan only as accents but I've mostly been doing belts and collars and cuffs. I want to start making garments out of the thinner weights of veg-tan, which means wet forming them for a better fit/shape. I prototyped out a neck corset, first in posterboard and then in a thin marine vinyl and now I have this beast: Apologies for the poor photography, apparently that is something else I need to improve at

The hardware isn't set yet, just placed in to hold things together temporarily. I was planning on soaking it in hot water and then wearing it until it dried. But, then how am I going to dye it and finish it? I usually just use daubers and eco-flo and finish it off with super shene but I don't think daubers are going to reach all the crevices. I know that if I dye it first it'll impede the wet forming process... and possibly also dye my neck black. I've also noticed that when I dye strips of veg-tan with the eco-flo and leave them to dry the edges sort twist off the ground. It only takes a gentle tug at the edges to get them straight, but does that mean it's getting wet enough during the dying process that it would just undo any wet forming?

Also, should I oil it? at what stage? And could there be bad effects with the hardware and water interacting?

Sorry for so many questions at once, but out of all the things I've been researching on leatherworking wet-forming has been the most confusing. Some people seem to get good results just from using their hands and intuition and other people make very exacting forms so I'm unsure what approach to take. Until recently I was a 3d artist in the videogame industry so I know enough anatomy to sculpt forms if necessary, but I don't know out of what... and unfortunately I never liked actual physical sculpting that much although I suppose I could learn to.

Thank you for looking! Here is some of my more conventional work.

-Liz

[TwinOaks]

Golly.....where to start.....?

Wet forming is somewhat of a misnomer, in most cases, and for our uses should probably be called 'damp' forming. If the edges are curling, it's too wet. Do a search for "Casing Leather" by Hidepounder. All you need to do is rehydrate the fibers in the leather, and it takes a lot less water than you might think.

Eco-dyes are water based. If you get eco-dyed leather wet...the colors WILL run. No matter what, that collar will have be sealed really well to keep from coloring the neck of the wearer. IMO, it'd work better with spirit dyes, and yes, you should put a light coat of oil OR some other conditioner on the pieces. The leather needs to be conditioned to remain a little flexible and not make creaking noises when the wearer moves. Have you considered Vinegaroon? Do a search on it, it's a great process if you're using BLACK.

For the assembly stage...I'd suggest spraying the dyes (if you're going to use them) or dip dyeing, then fit the pieces together and allow to dry. Once dry, disassemble, and seal with a spray....several light coats so you don't get any runs. Also, have you considered lining that collar? I get the feeling that somewhat stiff veg-tan AND pieces of rivets could get rather uncomfortable, which I didn't pick up as the intent since you stated Goth, not BDSM. Consider lacing or buck stitching the pieces together, maybe with some color matching "satin" cord? (personally, I love the red 'satin' cord against black leather) You'd get a great contrast and it'd be a lot more comfortable, and more adjustable.

[Sister Stigmata]

Golly.....where to start.....?

Wet forming is somewhat of a misnomer, in most cases, and for our uses should probably be called 'damp' forming. If the edges are curling, it's too wet. Do a search for "Casing Leather" by Hidepounder. All you need to do is rehydrate the fibers in the leather, and it takes a lot less water than you might think.

Eco-dyes are water based. If you get eco-dyed leather wet...the colors WILL run. No matter what, that collar will have be sealed really well to keep from coloring the neck of the wearer. IMO, it'd work better with spirit dyes, and yes, you should put a light coat of oil OR some other conditioner on the pieces. The leather needs to be conditioned to remain a little flexible and not make creaking noises when the wearer moves. Have you considered Vinegaroon? Do a search on it, it's a great process if you're using BLACK.

For the assembly stage...I'd suggest spraying the dyes (if you're going to use them) or dip dyeing, then fit the pieces together and allow to dry. Once dry, disassemble, and seal with a spray....several light coats so you don't get any runs. Also, have you considered lining that collar? I get the feeling that somewhat stiff veg-tan AND pieces of rivets could get rather uncomfortable, which I didn't pick up as the intent since you stated Goth, not BDSM. Consider lacing or buck stitching the pieces together, maybe with some color matching "satin" cord? (personally, I love the red 'satin' cord against black leather) You'd get a great contrast and it'd be a lot more comfortable, and more adjustable.

Vinegarooning looks awesome, I will definitely look in that. And I think I'll get a paint sprayer, they don't seem to be expensive. Would diluting acrylic paint with mineral spirits be equivalent to spirit based dying?

I was planning on glueing on a suede or pigskin lining, although the rivets are quite smooth. This particular piece is supposed to look very severe, after figuring out the process I was going to make versions with spikes and D rings, kind of going for a very Hellraiser look which is very BDSM inspired. The next one I make is going to be thinner veg-tan, but yeah, it is definitely a piece that goes for a specific look at the expense of some comfort. I was planning on making some versions that lace up as well though, and ones that don't go up all the way to to the chin.

Thanks for the advice!

[Ellen]

Thin leather, 2-3 oz, is wet formed by fingers (see maskmaking forum here or youtube), medium, 6-7 oz, will require some modeling tools and quite a pressure to make it conform the shape, thick, 8 oz or more, for complicated shapes or deep shapes is even nailed to wooden form and hammered to fill the crevices (some Venetian masks from thick leather).

In your case, wearing collar after leather starts look light, like dry leather, but still be damp, should shorten period of wearing it and still should give desired results.Help to form it with hands. You can remove it for some time, let it dry a little, then wear again.

As for dyes, I would recommend Fiebing's Pro-Oil dyes, excellent results, no staining after finishing with Super Shene or Satin Shene on outside and Resolene on inside. Or spray-on acrylic paint using Prevail unit from Tandy, if you haven't airbrushing equipment. It should be either acrylic leather dye or liquid artist paint with airbrush medium. Hand dyeing with large synthetic brush or sponge will also work, but coat may be less even.

All 3 methods - airbrushing (spraying), brushing or sponging with small piece of sponge - will allow you to get into the crevices.

If spaying finish, mere than one coat will be required for a good protection. If glossy finish is no onjection, Resolene diluted with water, 50-75% of Resolene, would be better. Do not overcoat, build layers slowly, because if apply too much - it will become tacky and thing will be not usable. If paint will be black, then black Resolene, it's less tacky.

Hope that helps.

[whinewine]

Would diluting acrylic paint with mineral spirits be equivalent to spirit based dying?

No. acrylic paints are:

1] paints. they are NOT dyes; they do NOT penetrate but sit on the surface,

and,

2] they are water-based... they aren't able to be diluted with mineral spirits (which is NOT for latex [water based] paint... only oil based paint).

What you could do, though, is dilute the acrylics with water & then spray enough coats to give a somewhat decent coverage... but, IMHO, you'd still be better off starting with spirit dyes.