Need Help With Dyes And Finishes

[BanjoMan]

I am fairly new to leatherwork and need some good advice on what dye and finish I need to use to get the results I want. I am making holsters, wallets, badge holders and related items and I need a durable finish. Up to this point, I have been using Tandy eco-flo water based dye and satin sheen finish. It has worked out all right with the brown and tan, but the black did not penetrate very well. After SEVERAL coats it still looked dark brown. I am ready to switch to a higher quality dye, but I don't know where to start. I have heard a lot of good things about Fiebing's, but they have several options to choose from. What is the difference between the regular dye and the oil dye? Also, what Fiebing's finish is best to use. I want something that is permanent and waterproof but I DO NOT want a high gloss. I am not equipped to spray a finish on, so I need something that can be applied with either wool daubers or a sponge. I know that this is a lot to ask at once, but I just need a starting point!

Edited January 11, 2011 by BanjoMan

[Reaves Leather]

For Eco flo you need to dye the leather blue first then black then finish. For Fiebings either will work and they are both better than eco flo. I always use tan kote for my finish which can be applied with anything.You should look and ask in the Dyes section of this Forum.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Reaves Leather

[marine mp]

Banjoman,

I use Fiebings dyes and a Feibings Resolene finish. Resolene/Water mixture 50/50 with at least 2 coatings. Leaves a satiny finish. The difference between Eco-flo and Fiebings is the difference between a water-base and oil base paint. The oil-base dye...I believe.... will be a more durable finish. My S.O.P. is to get to the point where I am ready to finish..1) 1 light coat of Neatsfoot oil..let dry overnight 2) Dye ..I use a dauber to dye, ...one-two-or three coats..whatever it takes..let dry overnight 3) Buff and finish w/2 coats of Resolene mixture.

I mostly use Feibings Oxblood Red Dye as it goes with most any color belt. Although the customer is the final authority. Semper-fi Mike

[Lobo]

My understanding of Fiebing's dyes is that the standard dye is spirit-based (alcohol base) and the oil dye is formulated to mix readily with neatsfoot oil or harness oil for simultaneous application (apparently an advantage in harness work, but not something we regularly do in holster making).

Dying holsters and other items black can be frustrating, especially when dying after forming the items. Black typically requires multiple applications to obtain adequate penetration and surface coloration.

Some finishes have a tendency to blend with and displace the dye, particularly when applied by hand (daubers, sponge, etc), so we must be certain of adequate dye penetration and coverage before finish applications.

My method for black includes a first dye application (Fiebing's spirit-based) by immersing the item in the dye for about 5 seconds, then letting that dry thoroughly (12 hours or more, depending on temperature and humidity). A second application is then done by brushing dye liberally over the exterior surfaces, then that is allowed to dry overnight. A third application by brush is then done, and allowed to dry overnight.

I then apply neatsfoot oil using either a brush or a cloth pad and allow the oil to settle into the leather overnight. This will sometimes result in a few areas showing insufficient black dye coverage, and those are dyed again using Fiebing's oil dye then allowed to dry overnight.

That is followed by a thorough application of acrylic to seal both interior and exterior surfaces, and that is allowed to air-dry overnight.

My final finish is a proprietary mixture that I have developed for a satin finish that resists scratching and abrasion.

Black is the most difficult and time consuming finish to complete, usually requiring 4 or 5 days to get it right. Any attempt to rush the process is likely to result in dye failure, and the only solution is to deglaze, re-dye, and re-finish. Primarily for this reason I am looking real hard at buying drum-dyed leather for my black production requirements.

Best regards.

[BigRiverLeather]

The quality of my dye consistency improved 10 fold when I started airbrushing. A $10 airbrush kit from Harbor Freight and a $55 Badger compressor from a Pawn shop (new compressors are about $69 from Harbor Freight less your 20% off coupon from Guns and Ammo) got me going.

Brown was my nemesis. Wool daubers made for inconsistent coverage. I've been dipping lately but it still seems the air brush gets the most even coverage and I am able to control the tone of brown which is handy when making matching sets.

I've had the opposite experience with black that Lobo has had. I always am happy with a order in black. I can slap it on with anything, usually a wool dauber and get consistent finishes. I don't dip in black just because my drying time is much faster when using a dauber.

I use Feibing's Pro Oil Dye for black and Brown. I mix light and dark brown 50/50 for medium brown. The spirit based leather dyes leave more film on the surface than I care to deal with, just more rubbing and buffing than the oil dye. However, I use Feibing's mahogany a lot and that particular color does not seem to leave very much film.

I recently received some sample swatches from Angelus. I tried their finishes and liked them so much I wanted to know more about their dyes. Their dyes are spirit base and the samples I received had a fair amount of film on them too. I ended up ordering a gallon of Cordovan from them just because it was so beautiful. Feibings Cordovan is basically black.

For finish I had been using Resolene cut 50/50. Applying with a sponge was a real PIA. the dyes would want to lift off and I could never seem to get to a point where the leather was sealed and I couldn't rub off dye, even with lots of pre buffing. Once again my problems were solved with the air brushing. After the samples of 600 and 610 finish I got from Angelus I decided to change to that. The drawback with resolene was the tacking feel it would leave no matter what the drying process. Angelus dyes had little or no tacky feel and they seemed to dry faster. So, I ordered a gallon of that with the plan to dip dye. The problem is they cannot ship it when it is freezing so after waiting a couple of weeks I realized it may be March before it would be safe to order since I am in WI. So I picked up a gallon of Super Sheen based on the fact that is is supposed to dry faster than Resolene (and it does) to dip in. I'm pretty satisfied with it but I will be ordering Angelus finish in the spring. Mental not to stock up next fall.

[BanjoMan]

Thanks for all the useful info everybody! I just received my order of Fiebing's from Tandy

and I'm gonna try it today. Bigriver, how is the gloss on the angelus compared to super

sheen? I'm looking for a finish with little to no gloss.

[BigRiverLeather]

Thanks for all the useful info everybody! I just received my order of Fiebing's from Tandy

and I'm gonna try it today. Bigriver, how is the gloss on the angelus compared to super

sheen? I'm looking for a finish with little to no gloss.

Took a while to get back to you on this one - the Super Sheen seems to have less gloss, more of a satin look than the Angelus 610 for sure.

[Bobby hdflame]

Took a while to get back to you on this one - the Super Sheen seems to have less gloss, more of a satin look than the Angelus 610 for sure.

BRL,

That holster picture in your signature line is a beautiful color. Is that the mahogany you were talking about? I'd love to see a bigger pic of it.

Where do you get the Angelus dye?

Thanks,

Bobby