Resolene Causing Dye Finish To 'spot'-Help!

[Hyde]

Sorry - no pic's (yet- can provide if needed)... but I have a MAJOR issue going on that I'm looking for input/suggestions on how to correct.

I tooled, punched, (lightly) water-formed, stained, and hand-sewed a custom motorcycle seat (approx 80hrs so far). Stain used was USMC Black (Fiebings), and while typically airbrushed, was applied with a dauber (I seem to get a richer looking black this way). Stain and buff was complete before stitching (note: no blemishes in any peice at this point). Ater sewing was complete, I top-coated with Fiebings Acrylic Resolene. This WAS sprayed, and turned out exceptional (as it has on other items in the past) with one major exception- it looks as if the resolene has caused the dye to 'spot' (for lack of a better term) under the top coat. I guess it looks more like a 'halo' than a spot- with the center being the same density/color as the rest of the piece, but surrounded by a dilluted (slightly less intense) color 'ring'. There's a half dozen or so ranging from 1/4" to 3/4" in diameter in very OBVIOUS places. I guess it's possible water vapor may (from my compressor) may be to blame but would think the entire peice would finish like this? Not to metion I spray in a swiping/fan pattern (constantly moving)- not just in one area? While a 'light coat' is hard to describe- it didn't haze over or 'milk' up as would be typically associated to a 'heavy' coat.

I'm stumped- although I haven't been doing this for years, I've never seen (or heard of) this before!?!? Is it even possible for the top coat to have an affect on a dried/buffed peice? Please note that none of the finishes were 'forced' dry.

So, as a last ditch effort, I'm in recovery mode- trying to save the seat as I don't want to have to start over when I'm on the last step.

The entire piece is solid black, which I'm hoping will work to my advantage. I've searched the forum (and elsewhere) to no avail. I think attempting to strip anything will cause more harm than good so I'm curios if dying OVER the existing light coat of resolene is an option? If so- I'd spray the entire piece (black), re-buff, and re-top coat (spray).

Any and all suggestions welcome and appreciated!!!

[Hyde]

Any and all suggestions welcome and appreciated!!!

BUMP... anyone?

After thinking long and hard about this, I may just reapply USMC Black (OVER the resolene) to see if it'll cover the spots, let it dry, buff, and re-seal. I fear without feedback and/or direction from you all that I've accepted the fact I may not be able to save this piece (which is a shame). While I haven't really contributed to this forum much (not much to offer due to lack of experience), I've gained a lot of knowledge and saved a lot of time/money by steering clear of pitfalls that I'm certain I would've encountered through trial, error, and tribulation.

I value any thoughts anyone may have on this as well as suggestions on how to move forward.

And in any case- I'll update this post with the results of my actions (will also take/post Before and After pics).

Thanks again...

[marine mp]

Hyde,

If I were you, I would put a light coat of neatsfoot or EVOO on it at this point. Neatsfoot will go thru the Resolene and may help the situation. There is nothing to loose at this point. If I'm doing Black, I use vinegaroon instead of dye. Especially seeing as its a scooter that prolly sees a lot of seat time and wear and will be subjected to all kinds of environments. . Vinegaroon turns the entire piece of leather black, not just the surface and won't wear off. It'sa a chemical reaction with the tannins in the leather. Just a thot. Semper-fi Mike

[Hyde]

Hyde,

If I were you, I would put a light coat of neatsfoot or EVOO on it at this point. Neatsfoot will go thru the Resolene and may help the situation. Semper-fi Mike

Thanks Mike- didn't know that (NF going through resolene)... I have plenty and will definitely consider (btw- I typically lightly oil and let sit for at least 24hrs BEFORE staining- not sure if I should've oiled again AFTER staining?).

As for vinegaroon- I really wanted to make some and dip these pieces but a.) time was of the essence and b.) thought I'd be rushing it, having not 'experimented' with it on a smaller project (i.e. knife sheath). In hindsight- guess I'm conducting an experiement anyways (go figure!). The vinegaroon really does looks nice on a lot of rig's I've seen on this board. I'm still planning on making some and may go this route if I have to re-tool/stitch the seat- we'll see.

Thanks again for the suggestion!

[marine mp]

Hyde, I neatsfoot after I dye or vinegaroon. The dye pulls some of the oils out of the leather, so I NF or EVOO (very lightly) after. You've not a thing to loose at this point. Semper-fi MIke

[abn]

Hyde, I can commiserate. Black is a tough color to get right, and even if you've had good results in the past, every so often a certain project will cause problems.

FWIW, I agree with your decision not to attempt to strip off what's already been applied. I think there's a good risk it'll ruin your project. I also agree with Mike's advice to try olive oil or another condition to see if it'll even out the color and finish for you. If all else fails, try to redye, but honestly -- I think I'd just try to touch up the problem spots and buff -- not redye the entire seat. That should be the last resort.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you're able to salvage this! Let us know how it works out.

[Hyde]

Thanks for everyone's input... the drama continues.

As suggested, I applied NF and let it sit for 24hrs. As suspected- it DIDN'T even out my color/blotchy issue (that would've been too easy). I ended up taking some pic's (before and after) and will post as soon as I can get around resizing... plus the flash really washed out the richness of the color (makes it look horrible... but actually highlights all the issues very well).

So... on to the next step- RE-DYE.

Interestingly... the NF seemingly allowed the spirit dye to penetrate through the resolene (is this even possible?)... so much so that it nearly corrected the problem with one application (wiping- no spraying)! I'll admit- I was totally surprised by this outcome and immediately grabbed a blow-dryer to lightly warm the leather and aid in cure time. After a light buff, another coat was applied in effort to achieve 100% opaque (it is now evident I need to dip all black pieces in the future- hello vinegaroon).

While the coverage looks good, I've starting seeing another issue- the leather seeming isn't taking the dye evenly everywhere (albiet so slightly). After another light warming and buff, my suspicions were confirmed (again- ever so slight).

So... on to my LAST attempt before scrapping and starting over (yes- if it comes to that, it will be dipped). I applied (yet another) light coat of NF and am in the process of waiting (another) 24hrs before attempting to apply (yet again...) hopefully an even coat of USMC spirit dye.

Here's my questions:

- What (exactly) did the NF do to allow dye to penetrate through it? I mean - I use resolene as a resist (for antique) all the time! Is it becase the antique I use is the ecoflo gel?

- Any opinions on if I should spray the final coat of black? All I want now is even tone... and it continues to amaze me how even I can get with the airbrush.

Assuming the above works- I still plan to airbrush resolene over the final coat. Thoughts?

[Hyde]

Took the plunge, had nothing to loose... and it paid off!!!! I WON'T be redoing this piece as there's no longer a need (the stain took and looks great!) -but WILL be trying my hand at dipping in vinagaroon for my next black project.

I want to say "Thanks" to everyone who provided insight, info, and words of encouragement. It's truely appreciated...

Now for the (LONG overdue) pics- note: the fluroscent lighting in my workshop (where all these photos were taken) is very 'white', which aid's in highlighting the problem. In normal (warm) lighting, it was evident there was a problem with the finish, but not to the degree shown.

The first couple pics are of my initial color, buff, and 1 coat of resolene. Color is USMC Black, 3 coats laid by hand (not sprayer). I buffed the residue between each coat there was NO sign of mishap before I sprayed 1 light coat of resolene (full strength) with my airbrush. Upon the topcoat drying (24hrs) the problem surfaced.

Left Side- Before (light makes this look a lot worse than what it was)

Top- Before (highlights the problem area well)

After NF oiling on top of resolene (the oil penetrated on it's own but didn't even out any color)

See next post for the finished product. Ended up redying, applying NF oil (let sit for 24hrs), another coat of dye, more NF oil (let sit for 24hrs), and yet more dye (evenly applied by airbrush), final buff, light coat of resolene (airbrush), and Kiwi Neutral shoe polish (which DID remove the tack!!!)

Edited February 8, 2011 by Hyde

[Hyde]

Here's a better shot illustrating no problems with color and highlighting the stiching

A larger pic of the finished product

[abn]

Hyde, so glad it worked out! That's a beautiful seat... It would have been a shame to lose it!