Billy Cook saddle History

[3arrows]

Hi guys, hope you are all having a great Memorial Day Holiday. I need some help on the history of the Billy Cook Saddles. Does anybody know the story around Billy Cook going out of business and selling the design to Simco/Longhorn? I have a Greenville Tx Billy Cook saddle and think it is a great saddle, only to be told by another person that this is actually a Simco saddle not a BC saddle afterall?? Any help on the history of these saddles and the history of Billy Cook? thanks ron

[superchute]

not shere on the Cook but there was a potts longhorn for a long not shere how that comes in but. Im shere it is in the mix some where.

Russell

[grumpyguy]

3arrows,

I have little information but for what it's worth here it goes, maybe someone out here has better. Billy Cook saddles were made on par with other production saddles like Hereford, Circle Y and others. I was seeing thier cutting models in the cutting arenas in the early and mideighties. They also produced a barrel saddle, a roping saddle along with what they called reigning and penning models. (Cut away skirts to get better leg ques on the horses sides.) I had the opportunity to purchase several cutters off and on and would have during that time. Thier cutter was very similar to the "semi custom" Bob Marshal cutters of the time period but considered inferior by alot of cutters. (They cost alot less too.) They both had pine with fiberglass covering. The production and semi custom saddles also had the fender as part of the stirup leather to make the stirups more free moving and eliminate another layer of thick leather, during this period. The late eighties began to see serious material and workmanship problems due to cost cutting in most all production saddles. Some saddles began useing a "half leather" riveted to the fenders. The rivets could pull out and the rider dumped among the feet of cattle and horses. (I saw one young lady who could not have wieghed more than 100#s dumped that way from a brand new "special ordered" production saddle made by a very well known maker.) Billy Cooks seemed to hold up thier quality and were in demand around the arenas for those unable to purchase the semi custom and customs. Around the end of the late eighties or early ninties the company was closed down. My understanding they were unable to compete in the market of that era. Later Billy Cooks began to be produced by Simco-Longhorn. They appear very much like the original production saddle designs and would be hard to tell apart. I have not seen any of the newer saddles up close though, so I really don't know anything about their quality. I much prefer the custom mades now and will rarely give serious thought to buying the production saddles, although I still own and use a couple of old Herefords occasionally. (One came with a horse I bought and the other was my daughters which she left with me when she went off to college.)

I did a lot of repair work on the Bob Marshals and Billy Cooks. The Marshal's were usually thicker, softer and better quality leather than the Billy Cook saddles and much easier to repair the old stitching or replacing the sheep skin. The stirup leathers wore well on both desins and I never did have to replace those on either models for anyone. (Some of these guys spent hours upon hours in the cutting arena.) Some of the riders had a more difficult time breakingk in the Billy Cooks due to the stiffer leather. But all in all the older saddles were quite serviceable and if taken care of performed well.

Not much as far as a historical account but that's what I know. Hope someone else has more to add, I would like to know how the new production stack up as they appear to be almost the same from photos I've seen. I imagine they are using some imported leathers and parts as the prices I've seen are not alot different than the current cheaper production saddles on todays market.

[billyjoe]

Billy Cook saddle are made in Mexico by T & T saddle

[bruce johnson]

Billy Cook has been around a while. There was an article in ShopTalk a while back on him. He has had control of the name a couple times. Recently he got some publicity for losing his work force in Sulphur to immigration issues. I had a couple Billy Cook cutters in the early 80s and they were pretty good. I had a Cheaney and a Cajun and really, none of them sat much different to me. There really is only so much you can do with the top side of a cutting board - fork height and horn styles are about it. There is not much trick to the seat other than keeping it off the withers. Grumpyguy pretty well summed up the time era and the reputations. I never got the chance to work on a Bob Marshall until recently. I was not particluarly impressed with it being superior to any of the Billys I have worked on.

There was a time when Billy had transferred rights to the name to a company. Rumor was that other saddles were being imported with the Billy Cook stamp too and sold through mail order, traveling tack auctions, traded in to saddle shops, etc. and nobody could ever verify what they had. There is some quality question as to the Greenville Billys vs. the Sulphur stamped ones too. Some is probably rumor and legend, and some is not. Billy Cook is not the only example. These quality issues and rumors always seem to pop up when a "name" saddlemaker sells the rights to use that name to someone else. It is still happening today.

Grumpy,

Regarding the production saddles riveted to the half leathers. Not a unique problem to the production guys. I have a relative who ended up on his head in a fairly new big name, high rep shop saddle. That apparently sent everyone else scurrying to lift their seat jockeys and see how their rivets looked at the top of the fenders before they went down the fence.

[grumpyguy]

3arrows,

I did a little checking and found that as mentioned Billy Cook produced saddles until he sold his original designs to Simco/Longhorn with legal right to lable them with the "Billy Cook" name. (Thus the reason the Simco/Longhorn looks like the old Billy Cook saddles.) He subsequently opened his saddle making business selling his newer updated Saddle Designs. His saddles are marked Billy Cook Maker, Sulpher, OK. So yours with the Texas mark may be a Simco?Longhorn and would be one of the original designs by Billy Cook. I noticed the Sulpher saddles are advertised as using Muir McDonald leather.

[3arrows]

Thanks guys for the info, really good history lesson here. I guess the best thing to do when buying these saddles is to look for the quality and not necessarily the name. The more I learn about this business the more interesting it gets. Thanks again ...........Ron

[SmokinP]

I've got a Billy Cook I bought new somewhere around 1980. It's a roping saddle...I think they called it a steer roping saddle. It's about as plain as you can get...only "tooling" is the maker stamp and the ID # on the latigo holder. It has seen it's rough days so it sure couldn't be called pretty. But it's the one I swing up most times. It just works real well for me. Only thing is it is heavy. I tell folks I'm never sure whether it's easier to put it on the horse or pick up the horse and put him in the saddle.

Last year bought the wife a BC Wade type saddle. Of course it's got all the pretty tooling and stuff. It is a nice looking rig. I tried it out just a little bit on a filly the other day and it seemed pretty comfortable and secure. Seems to be very well built and the details are nicely done. It'll probably never see any rough stuff so I'm pretty confident it'll work out good. Wife seems to like it really well.

But yes, Billy Cook is basically a name that has been for sale. So you can't just close your eyes and pick one off the shelf. Look at it good, ask questions. True for most things these days I suppose.

[jennifer]

From what I have researched I believe Billy Cook was a saddlemaker in Greenville, Texas prior to 1981 when he sold his designs & the rights to use his name to Longhorn with a 10 year non-competition agreement. In 1991 he opened shop in Sulphur Oklahoma.

He was apparently a good enough saddle maker to sell the rights to his name and designs.

If you have a saddle that was made in Greenville Texas that is stamped "Billy Cook Saddlery Greenville Texas" it is a Longhorn or Longhorn/Simco saddle. If it is stamped "Billy Cook Maker, Greenville Texas" it should be a pre-1981 saddle made by Billy Cook.

If it says Billy Cook Maker, Genuine, Sulpher Oklahoma it was made by the production shop currently owned by Billy Cook.

My research was not based on actual newspaper or legal documentation, so I wouldn't guarantee this to be fact. You could call both Longhorn and the Billy Cook Sulpher Oklahoma shops to get more information.

Jennifer

[PENSKE]

Thats its not true TT saddlery make a circle S saddle,circle t saddle,

And blue river saddle All of them poor quality saddle with cheaps tree

any question let me know

Billy Cook saddle are made in Mexico by T & T saddle